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Why would firing someone who's on paternity leave be an issue at all? We're talking multi-millionaires who will get multi-million dollar severance. It's pretty

Why would firing someone who's on paternity leave be an issue at all? We're talking multi-millionaires who will get multi-million dollar severance. It's pretty hilarious to see the pearl clutching of techno-bourgeoisie over something like this, pretending other tech-lords are getting mistreated over some supposed breach of decorum. The mere fact that he gets to take parental leave puts him head and shoulders above most workers in the country. Parental leave, high salary, severance... where do I sign up for some of this "truly awful" treatment?

ergocoder 4y ago
Multi-millionaire doesn't paint the right picture. That guy combining with his wife is worth 70-100m range. His startups with like 10 people was acquired by twitter for 100m. I don't see any issue firing them during paternity leave.
deltarholamda 4y ago
Assuming that being fired while on paternity leave is even notable as a tragedy is a very 2022 thing. People can disagree on whether paternity leave is a good, bad, or indifferent thing, but it didn't even exist as a concept for most of humanity's existence in an official capacity. It went from being an idea, to a right, to something roughly comparable to "fired while undergoing chemotherapy" in a generation. It's odd.
- wutbrodo 4y ago
  There's a very weird strain of culty utopian-maximalism in our culture right now. It'd bother me less if the entire last century wasn't filled with horror stories about what can happen if this sort of childishness festers too much. I assume it's yet another consequence of social media's effect on culture: being as hysterical as possible has suddenly become heavily rewarded. The downstream effects on broader political culture (and culture in general) are utterly fascinating to me.
corrral 4y ago
Seriously. HN: "Firing a millionaire on paternity leave—and by "firing" I mean continuing to pay for the rest of their leave, plus probably a bunch of severance—is horrible!" 99% of the rest of the US: "WTF is paternity leave? Is that when your boss generously lets you use some of your annual leave for part of the week in which your kid is born?"
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jdavis703 4y ago
  Many states in the US have family leave (including paternity leave). California is more than 10% of the US population and the rules for paternity leave are extremely broad: - Welcomed a new child into the family in the past 12 months through birth. - Paid into State Disability Insurance (noted as "CASDI" on most paystubs) in the past 5 to 18 months. - Not taken the maximum eight weeks of PFL in the past 12 months Insinuating that 99% of the US lacks paternity leave is disingenuous.
  - corrral 4y ago
    Nice, didn't know about that. Expanded-qualification FMLA-like unpaid leave and more limited provisions for paid leave, for some workers, is pretty good compared to most of the country.
  - ben174 4y ago
    This is good information, but the original point is still valid. Kayvon is not struggling in the least bit.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      I think the issue is more that firing someone during paternity leave discourages others at your company from taking paternity leave, not that this person is in some way financially devastated from the firing.
  - 4y ago
lpv 4y ago
I don't see the issue either. In a fancy job like this it seems much better to get fired now so he can calmly plan his next move, instead of them waiting for him to return and then firing him, which would just waste everyone's time.
aetherson 4y ago
Part of the deal with being an executive is no job security. It's part of the trade you make for gigantic compensation. I never really feel bad for executives who are fired, even for unfair reasons -- it's just part of what they sign up for.
- thrwy_918 4y ago
  >Part of the deal with being an executive is no job security. I would say that in the US labor market having no job security is the norm rather than the exception, so it seems peculiar to couch it as "part of the trade you make for gigantic compensation".
bredren 4y ago
That there is high compensation attached to this job is unrelated to the principal of firing an employee on family leave. Companies are having to hold the line on what we value in this country, as legislation from environmental to health is not keeping up. Twitter is specifically of note because the CEO recently had a child and rightfully took paid leave himself. Whatever your personal opinions are on Elon Musk, he is very influential. The man has six children and a varying track record on how he has communicated his views and personal use of parental leave and the role of the father following the birth of a child. https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/598065854736044032 https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/59806585473604403... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/12/elon-musk-big-families-sound-great-but-who-is-going-take-care-of-kids https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/12/elon-m... The culture and policy Twitter matters. It doesn’t matter if the individual experience is that a janitor or senior management.
- lesstenseflow 4y ago
  From elsewhere in this thread: - Part of the deal with being an executive is no job security. It's part of the trade you make for gigantic compensation. - What would be preferred, firing him the first day he's back?
  - bredren 4y ago
    > - Part of the deal with being an executive is no job security. This is the case in any at will hire. > It's part of the trade you make for gigantic compensation. This trade is made by people regardless of the compensation amount. > - What would be preferred, firing him the first day he's back? Yes, optics matter and it would send a better message and set a better example.
- seizethecheese 4y ago
  Why would that be? Surely the badness in being fired is tied to the sudden loss of income, which is less bad if you’re super wealthy.
  - 4y ago
tempnow987 4y ago
I thought they paid him something in the 10's of millions range to bring him on through periscope? I thought the comp packages were more in the single digit millions range for these folks, and stock oriented. My guess is they've taken bigger losses on just the general stock market decline than most, though for those who hold twitter I personally think Elon is wildly overpaying (as usual, see solar city) and they will make out like bandits as a result there.

ergocoder 4y ago

Multi-millionaire doesn't paint the right picture. That guy combining with his wife is worth 70-100m range. His startups with like 10 people was acquired by twitter for 100m. I don't see any issue firing them during paternity leave.

deltarholamda 4y ago

Assuming that being fired while on paternity leave is even notable as a tragedy is a very 2022 thing. People can disagree on whether paternity leave is a good, bad, or indifferent thing, but it didn't even exist as a concept for most of humanity's existence in an official capacity. It went from being an idea, to a right, to something roughly comparable to "fired while undergoing chemotherapy" in a generation. It's odd.

wutbrodo 4y ago
There's a very weird strain of culty utopian-maximalism in our culture right now. It'd bother me less if the entire last century wasn't filled with horror stories about what can happen if this sort of childishness festers too much. I assume it's yet another consequence of social media's effect on culture: being as hysterical as possible has suddenly become heavily rewarded. The downstream effects on broader political culture (and culture in general) are utterly fascinating to me.

corrral 4y ago

Seriously. HN: "Firing a millionaire on paternity leave—and by "firing" I mean continuing to pay for the rest of their leave, plus probably a bunch of severance—is horrible!" 99% of the rest of the US: "WTF is paternity leave? Is that when your boss generously lets you use some of your annual leave for part of the week in which your kid is born?"

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jdavis703 4y ago
Many states in the US have family leave (including paternity leave). California is more than 10% of the US population and the rules for paternity leave are extremely broad: - Welcomed a new child into the family in the past 12 months through birth. - Paid into State Disability Insurance (noted as "CASDI" on most paystubs) in the past 5 to 18 months. - Not taken the maximum eight weeks of PFL in the past 12 months Insinuating that 99% of the US lacks paternity leave is disingenuous.
- corrral 4y ago
  Nice, didn't know about that. Expanded-qualification FMLA-like unpaid leave and more limited provisions for paid leave, for some workers, is pretty good compared to most of the country.
- ben174 4y ago
  This is good information, but the original point is still valid. Kayvon is not struggling in the least bit.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    I think the issue is more that firing someone during paternity leave discourages others at your company from taking paternity leave, not that this person is in some way financially devastated from the firing.
- 4y ago

lpv 4y ago

I don't see the issue either. In a fancy job like this it seems much better to get fired now so he can calmly plan his next move, instead of them waiting for him to return and then firing him, which would just waste everyone's time.

aetherson 4y ago

Part of the deal with being an executive is no job security. It's part of the trade you make for gigantic compensation. I never really feel bad for executives who are fired, even for unfair reasons -- it's just part of what they sign up for.

thrwy_918 4y ago
>Part of the deal with being an executive is no job security. I would say that in the US labor market having no job security is the norm rather than the exception, so it seems peculiar to couch it as "part of the trade you make for gigantic compensation".

bredren 4y ago

That there is high compensation attached to this job is unrelated to the principal of firing an employee on family leave. Companies are having to hold the line on what we value in this country, as legislation from environmental to health is not keeping up. Twitter is specifically of note because the CEO recently had a child and rightfully took paid leave himself. Whatever your personal opinions are on Elon Musk, he is very influential. The man has six children and a varying track record on how he has communicated his views and personal use of parental leave and the role of the father following the birth of a child. https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/598065854736044032 https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/59806585473604403... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/12/elon-musk-big-families-sound-great-but-who-is-going-take-care-of-kids https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/12/elon-m... The culture and policy Twitter matters. It doesn’t matter if the individual experience is that a janitor or senior management.

lesstenseflow 4y ago
From elsewhere in this thread: - Part of the deal with being an executive is no job security. It's part of the trade you make for gigantic compensation. - What would be preferred, firing him the first day he's back?
- bredren 4y ago
  > - Part of the deal with being an executive is no job security. This is the case in any at will hire. > It's part of the trade you make for gigantic compensation. This trade is made by people regardless of the compensation amount. > - What would be preferred, firing him the first day he's back? Yes, optics matter and it would send a better message and set a better example.
seizethecheese 4y ago
Why would that be? Surely the badness in being fired is tied to the sudden loss of income, which is less bad if you’re super wealthy.
- 4y ago

tempnow987 4y ago

I thought they paid him something in the 10's of millions range to bring him on through periscope? I thought the comp packages were more in the single digit millions range for these folks, and stock oriented. My guess is they've taken bigger losses on just the general stock market decline than most, though for those who hold twitter I personally think Elon is wildly overpaying (as usual, see solar city) and they will make out like bandits as a result there.