6 ms·

But there is also an oxygen candle above every seat in passenger airplanes, right? Then it would be a consumer product ...

by modec 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dividedbyzero 4y ago
I think that's stretching the definition of consumer product to the point of losing its usefulness. A lot of (semi-)automated emergency tech contains seriously dangerous stuff, like explosives or highly toxic materials, and these devices are usually very carefully engineered to keep the risks from using that tech acceptable even under emergency circumstances, and risk tolerance tends to be a lot higher for a device meant to be used in a decompressing plane in the first place. You can't use that oxygen candle outside such a situation, and you can only use it through the extremely constrained user interfaces provided by the yank switch and mask.
- throwawayboise 4y ago
  The oxygen generators in an aircraft are only designed to provide emergency oxygen if cabin presurization is lost, until the pilots can descend to breathable atmosphere (under 10,000 ft). I.e. maybe 10 minutes or so. There will be no dangerous accumulation of CO2 in that time, hence no need for scrubbers.
  - a1369209993 4y ago
    If cabin presurization is lost, there will be no dangerous accumulation of CO2 period, because it leaks out through the non-airtight seal between the oxygen mask and your face. The emergency oxygen is more about providing a breathable partial pressure of oxygen (~0.2 atmosphere IIRC) when the total pressure is much lower than sea level, by greatly increasing the concentration.
- modec 4y ago
  Ok fair. I just thought that it proved that they could be made safe. I now realize that emergency situations have very different tolerances for safety.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  This. Similar - a residential electrical service panel. It's generally okay for even a little kid to flip a wall-mounted light switch. Touching the circuit breaker handles on the service panel is a "competent adults, paying close attention, only at need" activity. And digging inside that service panel should only be done by professionals.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    >Touching the circuit breaker handles on the service panel is a "competent adults, paying close attention, only at need" activity. Kindly screw off with the FUD peddling. You should be able to flip breakers all you want without doing anything more than annoying people by interrupting whatever those breakers were powering. A breaker panel is designed so that you need to get out a screwdriver and remove fasteners to get near anything that might hurt you. Unless someone is actively working on a circuit <insert a bunch of low effort comments about the virtues of lock out tag out here> you shouldn't be able to hurt anyone or anything by flipping a breaker on or off. Breakers protect the wires. Devices are responsible for their own protection. Incomplete circuits get capped to prevent shorts to ground or elsewhere.
    - bell-cot 4y ago
      At small scale, either living alone or with a few other responsible adults, you're pretty much correct. But you've never had grandkids who got interested in playing with the breaker panel, have you? Nor almost gotten yourself electrocuted, when you trusted a "not quite so sharp as they once were" older relative to turn off the specific 20A circuit that you were working on? Also worth noting - residential circuit breakers, even new (vs. decades-old plastic that's getting kinda brittle) are often rated for vastly fewer on/off cycles than even the crappiest old wall-mounted light switch.
      - Ensorceled 4y ago
        I agree, kids and senile seniors should be kept away from the breaker panel. But that wasn't your original assertion, stop moving the goal posts.
meepmorp 4y ago
People get surgery every day, does that make the surgical instruments that are used, consumer products?
- modec 4y ago
  No. Sorry I was wrong.
  - meepmorp 4y ago
    Jesus, I swear I haven't heard anyone say that on the internet in over a decade. Unironically, thanks.
NickRandom 4y ago
See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_oxygen_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_oxygen_system for details on the two types of systems used (not an expert, just duck-ducked it out of curiousity). Yes - there is (sometimes) an oxygen candle above each seat. Does that make it a consumer product? I'm not sure and no opinion on that aspect, I mainly included the link for those interested in how they work. To coin a phrase 'Now I know'.
ineedasername 4y ago
By that reasoning the chemical explosive inside a car's airbag is also a consumer product. Same for toxic carcinogenic rhodium found in catalytic converters. I could go on. Just because something in a consumer product does not mean that thing, by itself, is a consumer product. Or at least us using the term "consumer product" is stretched near the breaking point if you look at things that way.
- modec 4y ago
  Yes. Sorry I was wrong.

But there is also an oxygen candle above every seat in passenger airplanes, right? Then it would be a consumer product ...

by modec 4y ago

But there is also an oxygen candle above every seat in passenger airplanes, right? Then it would be a consumer product ...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dividedbyzero 4y ago

I think that's stretching the definition of consumer product to the point of losing its usefulness. A lot of (semi-)automated emergency tech contains seriously dangerous stuff, like explosives or highly toxic materials, and these devices are usually very carefully engineered to keep the risks from using that tech acceptable even under emergency circumstances, and risk tolerance tends to be a lot higher for a device meant to be used in a decompressing plane in the first place. You can't use that oxygen candle outside such a situation, and you can only use it through the extremely constrained user interfaces provided by the yank switch and mask.

throwawayboise 4y ago
The oxygen generators in an aircraft are only designed to provide emergency oxygen if cabin presurization is lost, until the pilots can descend to breathable atmosphere (under 10,000 ft). I.e. maybe 10 minutes or so. There will be no dangerous accumulation of CO2 in that time, hence no need for scrubbers.
- a1369209993 4y ago
  If cabin presurization is lost, there will be no dangerous accumulation of CO2 period, because it leaks out through the non-airtight seal between the oxygen mask and your face. The emergency oxygen is more about providing a breathable partial pressure of oxygen (~0.2 atmosphere IIRC) when the total pressure is much lower than sea level, by greatly increasing the concentration.
modec 4y ago
Ok fair. I just thought that it proved that they could be made safe. I now realize that emergency situations have very different tolerances for safety.
bell-cot 4y ago
This. Similar - a residential electrical service panel. It's generally okay for even a little kid to flip a wall-mounted light switch. Touching the circuit breaker handles on the service panel is a "competent adults, paying close attention, only at need" activity. And digging inside that service panel should only be done by professionals.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >Touching the circuit breaker handles on the service panel is a "competent adults, paying close attention, only at need" activity. Kindly screw off with the FUD peddling. You should be able to flip breakers all you want without doing anything more than annoying people by interrupting whatever those breakers were powering. A breaker panel is designed so that you need to get out a screwdriver and remove fasteners to get near anything that might hurt you. Unless someone is actively working on a circuit <insert a bunch of low effort comments about the virtues of lock out tag out here> you shouldn't be able to hurt anyone or anything by flipping a breaker on or off. Breakers protect the wires. Devices are responsible for their own protection. Incomplete circuits get capped to prevent shorts to ground or elsewhere.
  - bell-cot 4y ago
    At small scale, either living alone or with a few other responsible adults, you're pretty much correct. But you've never had grandkids who got interested in playing with the breaker panel, have you? Nor almost gotten yourself electrocuted, when you trusted a "not quite so sharp as they once were" older relative to turn off the specific 20A circuit that you were working on? Also worth noting - residential circuit breakers, even new (vs. decades-old plastic that's getting kinda brittle) are often rated for vastly fewer on/off cycles than even the crappiest old wall-mounted light switch.
    - Ensorceled 4y ago
      I agree, kids and senile seniors should be kept away from the breaker panel. But that wasn't your original assertion, stop moving the goal posts.

meepmorp 4y ago

People get surgery every day, does that make the surgical instruments that are used, consumer products?

modec 4y ago
No. Sorry I was wrong.
- meepmorp 4y ago
  Jesus, I swear I haven't heard anyone say that on the internet in over a decade. Unironically, thanks.

NickRandom 4y ago

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_oxygen_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_oxygen_system for details on the two types of systems used (not an expert, just duck-ducked it out of curiousity). Yes - there is (sometimes) an oxygen candle above each seat. Does that make it a consumer product? I'm not sure and no opinion on that aspect, I mainly included the link for those interested in how they work. To coin a phrase 'Now I know'.

ineedasername 4y ago

By that reasoning the chemical explosive inside a car's airbag is also a consumer product. Same for toxic carcinogenic rhodium found in catalytic converters. I could go on. Just because something in a consumer product does not mean that thing, by itself, is a consumer product. Or at least us using the term "consumer product" is stretched near the breaking point if you look at things that way.

modec 4y ago
Yes. Sorry I was wrong.