10 ms·

Norway oil is way more relevant for your thesis than Norway taxes

by tnr23 4y ago

randito 4y ago
Norway oil [with a visionary who helped guide its investment] is more relevant.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19594153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19594153
kmonsen 4y ago
So does Texas and Alaska, and even California?
- mcv 4y ago
  Doesn't Alaska provide a small basic income for its citizens funded by oil revenue?
tanto 4y ago
Yea right, so is the German oil for Germany. /s You seem to be quite the expert on Norway. Can you elaborate how they prop up social services with oil money?
- CurleighBraces 4y ago
  I believe the parent comment is referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...
- emteycz 4y ago
  Lol, don't speak about high taxes if you don't even know how Norway and oil go together...
  - throwmeariver1 4y ago
    lol not like the us could do the same.
- tnr23 4y ago
  Why do you feel offended? OP had the thesis that the "Norway sovereign fund" is funded by high taxes. This fund is also known as the "Oil fund": The Government Pension Fund Global, also known as the Oil Fund, was established in 1990 to invest the surplus revenues of the Norwegian petroleum sector. Conclusion: The Norwegian society is not just rich just because you are that smart. You obviously had a good portion of luck.
actually_a_dog 4y ago
The US has 6.7x more oil reserves than Norway: https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/ https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/
- yywwbbn 4y ago
  So US has around 9x less per capita since only ~5 million people live in Norway?
  - actually_a_dog 4y ago
    Since people are misreading this comment, either deliberately or because I have not been clear enough, I am going to assume good faith and edit the comment to be more clear. --- And 6.7x the amount of the Norwegian Government Pension Fund Global exceeds the entire annual budget of the US government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor... https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spending/ https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spend... Imagine if the US could just magically borrow from next year's budget, but at zero cost? That's the net effect of having an entire additional several trillion dollars laying around. In hard numbers, that 6.7x works out to around $9.3 trillion, of which it's a pretty safe assumption that you can "borrow" around 3% of it annually, forever. That works out to around $280 billion. It ain't chump change. We could easily end homelessness in the US with that amount, and have much more left over to do even more social good. https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/social-justice/20-billion-not-enough-eradicate-homelessness/536-87f9cba3-5654-4f5b-845c-2f57716c8850 https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/social-justic... After we take the 50-ish billion a year it would take to eradicate homelessness (keep in mind, we can sustain this in real terms approximately forever), let's move on to higher education. The Debt Free College act would reportedly cost the US $75 billion a year. https://educationdata.org/how-much-would-free-college-cost https://educationdata.org/how-much-would-free-college-cost No problem. We've only spent half of what we can borrow in perpetuity from the future with this hypothetical sovereign wealth fund laying around. Let's go for the triple crown and give everybody universal, employer-independent health coverage. Oh, guess what? That was a trick. Implementing universal healthcare, simply replacing premiums by taxes, would save the US many more billions of dollars we could put to good use doing even more social good. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-wou... Or maybe it would cost an additional $149 billion. Who cares? We're still under budget. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30857-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... And, so, now, we've reached a point where nobody in the US needs to ever worry about student loans, medical costs, or homelessness again. (Well, okay, not nobody -- we still need to figure out something for the people who have taken out student loans already, but I think we can probably handle that.) It's not quite the extensive welfare state that Norway has, but it's pretty damn close. Guess what happens to the labor market under those conditions? If you said "it becomes much more like a free market," you guessed right! And who can argue against that, really?

Norway oil is way more relevant for your thesis than Norway taxes

by tnr23 4y ago

Norway oil is way more relevant for your thesis than Norway taxes

Norway oil [with a visionary who helped guide its investment] is more relevant.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19594153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19594153

kmonsen 4y ago

So does Texas and Alaska, and even California?

mcv 4y ago
Doesn't Alaska provide a small basic income for its citizens funded by oil revenue?

tanto 4y ago

Yea right, so is the German oil for Germany. /s You seem to be quite the expert on Norway. Can you elaborate how they prop up social services with oil money?

CurleighBraces 4y ago
I believe the parent comment is referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...
emteycz 4y ago
Lol, don't speak about high taxes if you don't even know how Norway and oil go together...
- throwmeariver1 4y ago
  lol not like the us could do the same.
tnr23 4y ago
Why do you feel offended? OP had the thesis that the "Norway sovereign fund" is funded by high taxes. This fund is also known as the "Oil fund": The Government Pension Fund Global, also known as the Oil Fund, was established in 1990 to invest the surplus revenues of the Norwegian petroleum sector. Conclusion: The Norwegian society is not just rich just because you are that smart. You obviously had a good portion of luck.

actually_a_dog 4y ago

The US has 6.7x more oil reserves than Norway: https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/ https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-reserves-by-country/

yywwbbn 4y ago
So US has around 9x less per capita since only ~5 million people live in Norway?
- actually_a_dog 4y ago
  Since people are misreading this comment, either deliberately or because I have not been clear enough, I am going to assume good faith and edit the comment to be more clear. --- And 6.7x the amount of the Norwegian Government Pension Fund Global exceeds the entire annual budget of the US government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor... https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spending/ https://datalab.usaspending.gov/americas-finance-guide/spend... Imagine if the US could just magically borrow from next year's budget, but at zero cost? That's the net effect of having an entire additional several trillion dollars laying around. In hard numbers, that 6.7x works out to around $9.3 trillion, of which it's a pretty safe assumption that you can "borrow" around 3% of it annually, forever. That works out to around $280 billion. It ain't chump change. We could easily end homelessness in the US with that amount, and have much more left over to do even more social good. https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/social-justice/20-billion-not-enough-eradicate-homelessness/536-87f9cba3-5654-4f5b-845c-2f57716c8850 https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/social-justic... After we take the 50-ish billion a year it would take to eradicate homelessness (keep in mind, we can sustain this in real terms approximately forever), let's move on to higher education. The Debt Free College act would reportedly cost the US $75 billion a year. https://educationdata.org/how-much-would-free-college-cost https://educationdata.org/how-much-would-free-college-cost No problem. We've only spent half of what we can borrow in perpetuity from the future with this hypothetical sovereign wealth fund laying around. Let's go for the triple crown and give everybody universal, employer-independent health coverage. Oh, guess what? That was a trick. Implementing universal healthcare, simply replacing premiums by taxes, would save the US many more billions of dollars we could put to good use doing even more social good. https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-would-save-the-u-s-trillions-public-option-would-leave-millions-uninsured-not-garner-savings/ https://www.citizen.org/news/fact-check-medicare-for-all-wou... Or maybe it would cost an additional $149 billion. Who cares? We're still under budget. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30857-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... And, so, now, we've reached a point where nobody in the US needs to ever worry about student loans, medical costs, or homelessness again. (Well, okay, not nobody -- we still need to figure out something for the people who have taken out student loans already, but I think we can probably handle that.) It's not quite the extensive welfare state that Norway has, but it's pretty damn close. Guess what happens to the labor market under those conditions? If you said "it becomes much more like a free market," you guessed right! And who can argue against that, really?