7 ms·

> the monstrosity it turned into Literally what? React is responsible for infinitely scaling frontend features and career growth I never could have imagined.

anhner 4y ago
What does one have to do with the other? React may have helped you with your career but that doesn't mean it can't be a monstruosity
- cutler 4y ago
  Yes. Winess Java.
dvt 4y ago
> infinitely scaling frontend features Front-end features can "infinitely scale" without React. Career growth is great, but, in my experience, after a while (maybe ~Senior Engineer), it becomes technology-agnostic.
- lsalvatore 4y ago
  We wrote enterprise applications with jQuery and Backbone. It didn't scale. React fixed everything. There is no post-React. I'm not "technology-agnostic"- I only use React, and will only work for companies that use React. React is the best.
  - rfrey 4y ago
    > There is no post-React Oh, you sweet summer child.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    Also, XML is the pinnacle of communication. How many conferences have I been to on it? I'm going to be using XMLSpy til I die! - you, if you'd been born 20 years earlier
  - oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
    This is quite a reactionary comment.
simonw 4y ago
Most websites built as SPAs using React are slower, buggier and more expensive to maintain than if they had been built using mostly server-side rendered pages, like we did in the 90s.
- lolinder 4y ago
  The problem there isn't with React, it's with people who build websites out of a tool that's designed for huge applications. Most websites shouldn't be built with React. Most single-story buildings shouldn't be built out of steel I beams. That doesn't make them a bad material, it just means you shouldn't use them if a simpler material will do.
  - pseudosavant 4y ago
    This 1000x. Every nail looks like a React app. Most frameworks are overkill for most sites/apps. There are definitely ones that need that level of architecture, but that isn't most of the time.
    - lsalvatore 4y ago
  - andrei_says_ 4y ago
    > Most single-story buildings shouldn't be built out of steel I beams. But many are! This is the issue. 10-50x the effort, complexity, hours, expense. Lots and lots of steel, everywhere, because managers heard that Megacorp uses steel and now insist on it. Steel beams everywhere.
    - lsalvatore 4y ago
      Hey actually React has nothing to do with Megacorp at all. We adopted React in 2015 on a small team (less than 10 engineers) as did many other small startups at that time. The decision to use React on a small team is the same as it would be on a large team: It dramatically changes frontend development. It makes this career worth while. I did 5 years before React, and now still using React 7 years after with no competitor in sight. I don't use React because I'm being forced to. We chose React!
djbusby 4y ago
I imagine the career growth would have happened regardless of which framework became the new hotness. That is, any framework with similar usage/growth would have done the same. I've just seen the pattern too many times.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Maybe, it's hard to say. Whether or not it caused it significantly or how it was involved, the "react era" has coincided with a huge increase in demand, pay and respect for front-end specialists. A whole webdev cohort came up on and with these technologies, were taken seriously because of their mastery of them, and have moved into areas of tech and engineering that would have been absolutely off-limits to "mere" html/css developers. I'm not willing to claim that react alone made that happen, but it's not at all clear to me that it would have without react having the timing, momentum, and cachet that it has.
- lsalvatore 4y ago
  No, the career growth happened in 2015 when we adopted React and stopped endlessly inserting JS and CSS tags from jQuery plugins. Backbone made things worse. Angular made things worse. React objectively changed my life and allowed me to work several remote jobs at once. I watched half a dozen startups adopt React for the better. There is no similar growth or usage to React. React is the king.
  - goatlover 4y ago
    Sounds like a religious experience.
    - lsalvatore 4y ago
    - djbusby 4y ago
      Exactly. The first time I observed this it was some Perl/CGI framework who's name I've forgotten. Then ColdFusion, then COM, PHP (Cake, Zend) and on the front there was that hotness before jQuery (which I've forgot), jQuery, that other one for a spell and now React. Loads of people board the train at the most recent stop and are amazed how "fast" it's going. At least with surfing all the waves are different - in web-tech it feels like the same wave over and over. Just wait (shakes cane) it'll happen to you too.

anhner 4y ago

What does one have to do with the other? React may have helped you with your career but that doesn't mean it can't be a monstruosity

cutler 4y ago
Yes. Winess Java.

dvt 4y ago

> infinitely scaling frontend features Front-end features can "infinitely scale" without React. Career growth is great, but, in my experience, after a while (maybe ~Senior Engineer), it becomes technology-agnostic.

lsalvatore 4y ago
We wrote enterprise applications with jQuery and Backbone. It didn't scale. React fixed everything. There is no post-React. I'm not "technology-agnostic"- I only use React, and will only work for companies that use React. React is the best.
- rfrey 4y ago
  > There is no post-React Oh, you sweet summer child.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  Also, XML is the pinnacle of communication. How many conferences have I been to on it? I'm going to be using XMLSpy til I die! - you, if you'd been born 20 years earlier
- oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
  This is quite a reactionary comment.

simonw 4y ago

Most websites built as SPAs using React are slower, buggier and more expensive to maintain than if they had been built using mostly server-side rendered pages, like we did in the 90s.

lolinder 4y ago
The problem there isn't with React, it's with people who build websites out of a tool that's designed for huge applications. Most websites shouldn't be built with React. Most single-story buildings shouldn't be built out of steel I beams. That doesn't make them a bad material, it just means you shouldn't use them if a simpler material will do.
- pseudosavant 4y ago
  This 1000x. Every nail looks like a React app. Most frameworks are overkill for most sites/apps. There are definitely ones that need that level of architecture, but that isn't most of the time.
  - lsalvatore 4y ago
- andrei_says_ 4y ago
  > Most single-story buildings shouldn't be built out of steel I beams. But many are! This is the issue. 10-50x the effort, complexity, hours, expense. Lots and lots of steel, everywhere, because managers heard that Megacorp uses steel and now insist on it. Steel beams everywhere.
  - lsalvatore 4y ago
    Hey actually React has nothing to do with Megacorp at all. We adopted React in 2015 on a small team (less than 10 engineers) as did many other small startups at that time. The decision to use React on a small team is the same as it would be on a large team: It dramatically changes frontend development. It makes this career worth while. I did 5 years before React, and now still using React 7 years after with no competitor in sight. I don't use React because I'm being forced to. We chose React!

djbusby 4y ago

I imagine the career growth would have happened regardless of which framework became the new hotness. That is, any framework with similar usage/growth would have done the same. I've just seen the pattern too many times.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
Maybe, it's hard to say. Whether or not it caused it significantly or how it was involved, the "react era" has coincided with a huge increase in demand, pay and respect for front-end specialists. A whole webdev cohort came up on and with these technologies, were taken seriously because of their mastery of them, and have moved into areas of tech and engineering that would have been absolutely off-limits to "mere" html/css developers. I'm not willing to claim that react alone made that happen, but it's not at all clear to me that it would have without react having the timing, momentum, and cachet that it has.
lsalvatore 4y ago
No, the career growth happened in 2015 when we adopted React and stopped endlessly inserting JS and CSS tags from jQuery plugins. Backbone made things worse. Angular made things worse. React objectively changed my life and allowed me to work several remote jobs at once. I watched half a dozen startups adopt React for the better. There is no similar growth or usage to React. React is the king.
- goatlover 4y ago
  Sounds like a religious experience.
  - lsalvatore 4y ago
  - djbusby 4y ago
    Exactly. The first time I observed this it was some Perl/CGI framework who's name I've forgotten. Then ColdFusion, then COM, PHP (Cake, Zend) and on the front there was that hotness before jQuery (which I've forgot), jQuery, that other one for a spell and now React. Loads of people board the train at the most recent stop and are amazed how "fast" it's going. At least with surfing all the waves are different - in web-tech it feels like the same wave over and over. Just wait (shakes cane) it'll happen to you too.