5 ms·

We have some relatively recent public polling data on this phenomenon: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/20/republicans-increasingly-critical-of-sev

We have some relatively recent public polling data on this phenomenon: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/20/republicans-increasingly-critical-of-several-major-u-s-institutions-including-big-corporations-and-banks/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/20/republicans... For what it's worth, the decline of trust in institutions is primarily among "Republican/lean Republican" respondents, who are a minority of American voters and likely a minority of American non-voters as well.

Geonode 4y ago
Polls are good measures of the kind of people who willingly talk to pollsters.
- NationalPark 4y ago
  If you're willing to dismiss polling out of hand for selection bias reasons, then why would you put any more weight onto intuitive arguments that rely on an even smaller and less systematic sampling?
  - Geonode 4y ago
    Why would I trust reason over a process that collects a series of anecdotes from the most bat-shit members of society willing to talk politics with a stranger on the phone and then tries to correct their data through mumbo jumbo fake math?
andrewclunn 4y ago
Are they still a minority? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-bidens-approval-rating-falls-further-as-gop-opens-up-huge-lead-poll/ar-AAWJmrl https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-bidens-approval-... Yes, there is a clear political tribal alignment between the current "out-group" and skepticism of institutions, but the rise of that iconoclasm on the right seems to be correlating with its growth as a whole.
- gsibble 4y ago
  They aren't a minority. As of 2021, there are more Republicans than Democrats. https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferences-shifted-greatly-during-2021.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferen...
  - NationalPark 4y ago
    I think your summary is obscuring some of the nuance in that data. What it shows is that independent voters self-identify as "lean rep"/"lean dem" based on their approval of the current president, which is low right now. Historically though, self-identified independents lean dem more than they lean rep (data in your link). Consider that the last time a Republican presidential candidate won the popular vote was in 2004, and before that was in 1988. It's well known that conservatives tend to vote Republican, and also tend to have much higher voter participation rates than progressives, so if your belief is that there are more Republicans and Democrats, you would expect to see more popular vote wins in elections with generally high participation (relative to other American elections - obviously American voter participation is dismal overall). So what accounts for that discrepancy?
    - andrewclunn 4y ago
      You break out a poll to cast a group as fringe. Other people bring up other polls (more recent ones) to counter that argument, and then you shift to a different line of evidence citing "historical trends." Please, take this advice to heart, you are clearly trying to justify a conclusion with whatever evidence you can grab at hand. Take a step back and ask yourself if tribal loyalty is clouding your judgement. We are all allowed (at least in the United States) to change our minds on things, but we can get in our own way. Lots of people seem to be changing their minds these days based on recognizing that their trust in some institution, process, or brand was misplaced. That might be you in a little while, and if it is, don't hate who you once were or once believed. Here's wishing you a good journey on your search for truth.
      - 4y ago
tenpies 4y ago
> For what it's worth, the decline of trust in institutions is primarily among "Republican/lean Republican" respondents, who are a minority of American voters and likely a minority of American non-voters as well. The problem with this line of thinking is that "Republican/lean Republican" is not a fixed trait. People can switch to that category instantly, overnight; so dismissing them just because the last time there was an election the other party managed to curry more votes after having every advantage possible - that's quite dangerous from a societal coherence standpoint.
- giantg2 4y ago
  I think it depends on exactly which institutions too. I would guess that law enforcement is an institution that more liberals distrust and more conservatives support.
  - laverya 4y ago
    Also depends on which law enforcement! "Fuck the ATF" might be more common on the right than the left for instance.
gsibble 4y ago
Actually, there are more Republicans than Democrats. https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferences-shifted-greatly-during-2021.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferen...
kansface 4y ago
Looking at that data, Republicans trust the institutions they control and Democrats trust the institutions they control, with the trends following the direction the institutions are themselves moving. Our institutions continue to polarize and cleave society as a consequence.

Geonode 4y ago

Polls are good measures of the kind of people who willingly talk to pollsters.

NationalPark 4y ago
If you're willing to dismiss polling out of hand for selection bias reasons, then why would you put any more weight onto intuitive arguments that rely on an even smaller and less systematic sampling?
- Geonode 4y ago
  Why would I trust reason over a process that collects a series of anecdotes from the most bat-shit members of society willing to talk politics with a stranger on the phone and then tries to correct their data through mumbo jumbo fake math?

andrewclunn 4y ago

Are they still a minority? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-bidens-approval-rating-falls-further-as-gop-opens-up-huge-lead-poll/ar-AAWJmrl https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-bidens-approval-... Yes, there is a clear political tribal alignment between the current "out-group" and skepticism of institutions, but the rise of that iconoclasm on the right seems to be correlating with its growth as a whole.

gsibble 4y ago
They aren't a minority. As of 2021, there are more Republicans than Democrats. https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferences-shifted-greatly-during-2021.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferen...
- NationalPark 4y ago
  I think your summary is obscuring some of the nuance in that data. What it shows is that independent voters self-identify as "lean rep"/"lean dem" based on their approval of the current president, which is low right now. Historically though, self-identified independents lean dem more than they lean rep (data in your link). Consider that the last time a Republican presidential candidate won the popular vote was in 2004, and before that was in 1988. It's well known that conservatives tend to vote Republican, and also tend to have much higher voter participation rates than progressives, so if your belief is that there are more Republicans and Democrats, you would expect to see more popular vote wins in elections with generally high participation (relative to other American elections - obviously American voter participation is dismal overall). So what accounts for that discrepancy?
  - andrewclunn 4y ago
    You break out a poll to cast a group as fringe. Other people bring up other polls (more recent ones) to counter that argument, and then you shift to a different line of evidence citing "historical trends." Please, take this advice to heart, you are clearly trying to justify a conclusion with whatever evidence you can grab at hand. Take a step back and ask yourself if tribal loyalty is clouding your judgement. We are all allowed (at least in the United States) to change our minds on things, but we can get in our own way. Lots of people seem to be changing their minds these days based on recognizing that their trust in some institution, process, or brand was misplaced. That might be you in a little while, and if it is, don't hate who you once were or once believed. Here's wishing you a good journey on your search for truth.
    - 4y ago

tenpies 4y ago

> For what it's worth, the decline of trust in institutions is primarily among "Republican/lean Republican" respondents, who are a minority of American voters and likely a minority of American non-voters as well. The problem with this line of thinking is that "Republican/lean Republican" is not a fixed trait. People can switch to that category instantly, overnight; so dismissing them just because the last time there was an election the other party managed to curry more votes after having every advantage possible - that's quite dangerous from a societal coherence standpoint.

giantg2 4y ago
I think it depends on exactly which institutions too. I would guess that law enforcement is an institution that more liberals distrust and more conservatives support.
- laverya 4y ago
  Also depends on which law enforcement! "Fuck the ATF" might be more common on the right than the left for instance.

gsibble 4y ago

Actually, there are more Republicans than Democrats. https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferences-shifted-greatly-during-2021.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferen...

kansface 4y ago

Looking at that data, Republicans trust the institutions they control and Democrats trust the institutions they control, with the trends following the direction the institutions are themselves moving. Our institutions continue to polarize and cleave society as a consequence.