5 ms·

You jest but you’re wiser than you realize, especially if you include a diet change as part of the driver. Good diet (no sugars) and avoidance of broad-spectru

You jest but you’re wiser than you realize, especially if you include a diet change as part of the driver. Good diet (no sugars) and avoidance of broad-spectrum bactericides will allow good bacteria to thrive, pushing out the bad smelly ones. People have noticed similar beneficial responses, ie lack of disgusting body odor, when quitting hot soapy showers or the use of antiperspirants. Just gotta make sure diet goes with it. Along with general common sense cleanliness.

zionic 4y ago
>good bacteria I’ve seen evidence for this in the gut, WRT digestion and such. What possible basis could exist for there being “good” bacteria in your mouth? It’s still going to do damage even if it doesn’t offgas sulfur. Long term I imagine we’ll genetically engineer our offspring to produce all the required enzymes for healthy digestion without reliance on 3rd party organisms.
- justinpowers 4y ago
  There’s good (and bad) bacteria all over our bodies. Our skin is coated with them and needs to be coated with them. Without the good ones on our skin, bad ones take over, and then any cuts become more likely to get infected. I’ll update later with a source reference or two. But I’m willing to bet that Wikipedia‘s “skin flora” page has good info. Im not sure of the term for the mouth’s flora though…but I have zero doubt that it exists, simply because bacteria is everywhere. And gut bacteria get there via the mouth. Long story short, there’s no such thing as a pure human. We exist only because we are colonized by bacteria. We’re kind of like the earth in that regard. We house living organisms and they make us what we are, without them homeostasis crumbles and so do we. So, with that in mind, we should be selectively helping the good ones and killing the bad, instead of wiping them all out. Regarding replacing the gut bacteria with suitable enzymes for digestion, that would probably be misguided. The bacteria do more than just help digestion… they also keep bad bacteria out. And furthermore, they actually affect our mental health, keeping depression at bay for instance. Whether that’s indirectly via suppressing inflammation or some more direct means, I don’t recall. Edit: Looks like it’s a much more direct means of influence: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31100533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31100533 (There doesn’t seem to be much about this here on HN already, so I’m providing a source via HN submission in hopes of generating some discussion…)
  - outworlder 4y ago
    This is all true. We aren't immune to all their effects long term, though. The mouth is the best example. Bacteria will release all sorts of compounds as they have to eat. The enamel is able to resist (and reform) but it needs help if you have any hope of maintaining all your teeth past your prime reproductive age.
  - jrapdx3 4y ago
    You are correct re: evidence for connections between inflammation and depression. There's a robust literature on the subject. Here are just 2 articles. [0][1] ([1] specifically addresses gut flora and inflammation.) [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8968318/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8968318/ [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8965553/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8965553/
  - zionic 4y ago
    These all seem like problems we can solve via genetic engineering. Our bodies should produce immune system cells capable of fighting off any foreign organism, be that on our skin or in our mouths. We’re still so far from a complete understanding, but I suspect one day we’ll be able to “clean up” a lot of evolution’s mess. For example, imagine introducing entirely new systems of cells that attack and break down excess arterial plaques?
outworlder 4y ago
> Good diet (no sugars) and avoidance of broad-spectrum bactericides will allow good bacteria to thrive, pushing out the bad smelly ones. Good luck with that! What are you going to eat? Can't have fruits, most modern fruits are very high in fructose. Definitely nothing containing starch, which will immediately break down in your mouth. Meat? It has some sugar too (largely responsible for the barbecue taste). Its not wise to assume that mechanical (and perhaps even chemical) teeth cleaning wasn't practiced by our ancestors every since they evolved hands. Sure, reducing sugars goes a long way in keeping your mouth healthy. But we can't rely solely on that. Bacteria (even good ones) will ultimately form biofilms that need to be disrupted, otherwise they calcify and become tartar, then start accumulating down the gums, until they are mostly shielded from the air and the 'bad' anaerobic bacteria proliferate. You then get periodontitis and eventually start losing bone and then teeth (something accepted by society as a consequence of growing old, when it's in fact a disease).
- justinpowers 4y ago
  No sugars might have been better said as “less sugars” for the pedantic amongst us. Never said there was no mechanical cleaning. But they certainly didn’t have our “advanced” toothbrushes, toothpastes and mouthwashes. In fact, I’d say “mechanical washing” was an unavoidable aspect of eating harder foods rather than the soft, sticky processed items we tend towards today. And furthermore, with less stickiness (gluten and sugars) they would have needed less mechanical washing. Anyways, lifestyle changes don’t need to be all or nothing to have a measurable effect And yes even good bacteria can/will be bad at some point. Nonetheless they are still better than most others and will help maintain homeostasis for as long as time allows. We haven’t yet found a cure for time-related degeneration/accumulation, have we? But again, maybe I should have said “better bacteria” rather than “good”

zionic 4y ago

>good bacteria I’ve seen evidence for this in the gut, WRT digestion and such. What possible basis could exist for there being “good” bacteria in your mouth? It’s still going to do damage even if it doesn’t offgas sulfur. Long term I imagine we’ll genetically engineer our offspring to produce all the required enzymes for healthy digestion without reliance on 3rd party organisms.

justinpowers 4y ago
There’s good (and bad) bacteria all over our bodies. Our skin is coated with them and needs to be coated with them. Without the good ones on our skin, bad ones take over, and then any cuts become more likely to get infected. I’ll update later with a source reference or two. But I’m willing to bet that Wikipedia‘s “skin flora” page has good info. Im not sure of the term for the mouth’s flora though…but I have zero doubt that it exists, simply because bacteria is everywhere. And gut bacteria get there via the mouth. Long story short, there’s no such thing as a pure human. We exist only because we are colonized by bacteria. We’re kind of like the earth in that regard. We house living organisms and they make us what we are, without them homeostasis crumbles and so do we. So, with that in mind, we should be selectively helping the good ones and killing the bad, instead of wiping them all out. Regarding replacing the gut bacteria with suitable enzymes for digestion, that would probably be misguided. The bacteria do more than just help digestion… they also keep bad bacteria out. And furthermore, they actually affect our mental health, keeping depression at bay for instance. Whether that’s indirectly via suppressing inflammation or some more direct means, I don’t recall. Edit: Looks like it’s a much more direct means of influence: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31100533 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31100533 (There doesn’t seem to be much about this here on HN already, so I’m providing a source via HN submission in hopes of generating some discussion…)
- outworlder 4y ago
  This is all true. We aren't immune to all their effects long term, though. The mouth is the best example. Bacteria will release all sorts of compounds as they have to eat. The enamel is able to resist (and reform) but it needs help if you have any hope of maintaining all your teeth past your prime reproductive age.
- jrapdx3 4y ago
  You are correct re: evidence for connections between inflammation and depression. There's a robust literature on the subject. Here are just 2 articles. [0][1] ([1] specifically addresses gut flora and inflammation.) [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8968318/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8968318/ [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8965553/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8965553/
- zionic 4y ago
  These all seem like problems we can solve via genetic engineering. Our bodies should produce immune system cells capable of fighting off any foreign organism, be that on our skin or in our mouths. We’re still so far from a complete understanding, but I suspect one day we’ll be able to “clean up” a lot of evolution’s mess. For example, imagine introducing entirely new systems of cells that attack and break down excess arterial plaques?

outworlder 4y ago

> Good diet (no sugars) and avoidance of broad-spectrum bactericides will allow good bacteria to thrive, pushing out the bad smelly ones. Good luck with that! What are you going to eat? Can't have fruits, most modern fruits are very high in fructose. Definitely nothing containing starch, which will immediately break down in your mouth. Meat? It has some sugar too (largely responsible for the barbecue taste). Its not wise to assume that mechanical (and perhaps even chemical) teeth cleaning wasn't practiced by our ancestors every since they evolved hands. Sure, reducing sugars goes a long way in keeping your mouth healthy. But we can't rely solely on that. Bacteria (even good ones) will ultimately form biofilms that need to be disrupted, otherwise they calcify and become tartar, then start accumulating down the gums, until they are mostly shielded from the air and the 'bad' anaerobic bacteria proliferate. You then get periodontitis and eventually start losing bone and then teeth (something accepted by society as a consequence of growing old, when it's in fact a disease).

justinpowers 4y ago
No sugars might have been better said as “less sugars” for the pedantic amongst us. Never said there was no mechanical cleaning. But they certainly didn’t have our “advanced” toothbrushes, toothpastes and mouthwashes. In fact, I’d say “mechanical washing” was an unavoidable aspect of eating harder foods rather than the soft, sticky processed items we tend towards today. And furthermore, with less stickiness (gluten and sugars) they would have needed less mechanical washing. Anyways, lifestyle changes don’t need to be all or nothing to have a measurable effect And yes even good bacteria can/will be bad at some point. Nonetheless they are still better than most others and will help maintain homeostasis for as long as time allows. We haven’t yet found a cure for time-related degeneration/accumulation, have we? But again, maybe I should have said “better bacteria” rather than “good”