7 ms·

It's an unfortunate sign for everyone that you (and/or Cloudant) wouldn't anticipate this reaction from going into business with Monsanto. As to the "content-f

by kongqiu 15y ago

It's an unfortunate sign for everyone that you (and/or Cloudant) wouldn't anticipate this reaction from going into business with Monsanto. As to the "content-free" claim, sometimes a rant is an appropriate reaction. If some YC company partnered with Al Qaida, would we really need to spell out all the heinous things AQ has done before writing, "F- that!"?!? EDIT: And to your "If the rule is, if x sells something to Monsanto, fuck x, then what you're saying is fuck the entire corporate world, because I'm sure Monsanto buys Apple computers and Chevrolets and Clorox too. It's sort of ridiculous to hold Cloudant to a standard that essentially zero other companies meet." -- It's one thing if Monsanto buys iPhones and Macs from Apple; that would represent ~.0001% of Apple's overall business. It's another thing if Monsanto is responsible for a significant % of your revenue. (Of course, Cloudant's deal with Monsanto could represent only 2% of Cloudant's total revenue; but since it's a startup, the initial reaction people will have is that it's significantly higher than that.)

andylei 15y ago
the difference is that right now, you or anyone else in the thread can convincingly list a bunch of bad things they have done. so far, there is not a single convincing (and barely any substantive) comments about the bad things monsanto has done. if you disagree, please, let's discuss why monsanto is, as many here claim, "evil"
- SkyMarshal 15y ago
  I don't have time to get into that discussion, but if you google "the most evil company in the world" you'll see they're fighting it out with De Beers and one or two others for the top spot. There's also plenty on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto They're basically 80s/90s Microsoft at its worst, but in agriculture of both the developed and developing world (the latter being particularly heinous).
  - 0x12 15y ago
    Monsanto makes Microsoft look pretty good.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    You don't think you're maybe proving the wrong point when, after being asked to provide evidence for the argument that Monsanto is evil, you respond "just Google for most evil company in the world"? If you really want to pursue that point, maybe you want to start by reconciling it with the fact that by that scale, Monsanto is competing with Activision, Ford Motor, and Coca Cola (all of which appear alongside it on the top half of the first Google SERP for "most evil company in the world").
  - andylei 15y ago
    i'm seeing literally dozens of comments saying that it monsanto is the most evil company that exists, and literally, not one comment giving a single concrete reason why it is. why is hitler evil? i can tell you in 8 words. he ordered the deaths of millions of people. why is monsanto evil? seriously, name ONE thing that makes them evil.
    - pbreit 15y ago
      Monsanto knowingly engages in unethical activities that could jeopardize large portions of the world's food supply.
      - andylei 15y ago
        what are these activities? producing GMOs? high yield crops have enabled the feeding of hundreds of millions if not billions of people who would otherwise died of starvation.
        puredemo 15y ago
        http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3106488 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3106488 Nothing wrong with GMOs, lots and lots wrong with Monsanto.
irrumator 15y ago
Yes, because Hacker News is for civilized, rational discussion. Not '+1 !'s, not analogies to the Nazi regime, not a litany of profanity to a hard-working young startup, and not more hivemind think from Reddit. The kind of hivemind that downvotes any contrary opinion and upvotes the tasteless, content-free posts you see at the top. We can discourse in more substantial words than "F- that!". Multiple '?!?' becoming more common aren't a good sign.
- kongqiu 15y ago
  There's a place in civilized, rational discussion for ranting. Let's say you're out with two friends discussing the war on drugs, with all kinds of rational, civilized debate on the science, politics, economics, sociology, etc. Suddenly, one friend declares, "Ok, I understand the risks and potential rewards, and I've decided to start dealing coke." Sure, you can try to calmly talk them out of it, and/or you could do some "ranting." Both would be appropriate. "Hivemind" indeed.
  - irrumator 15y ago
    If we can quit the absurd analogies all over this thread for a minute, can you point me to why Monsanto is so evil in your eyes? Other than a Vanity piece, it seems everyone has come to a preconcluded fact that Monsanto is "evil" somehow. Cloudant is a business, and this is great for their financials, as well as for furthering the research in their tech stack. From reading it, I'm sure many on Hacker News use similar tools that will benefit from the research done by Cloudant.
    - chrisbennet 15y ago
      The documentary "Food Inc" describes Monsanto's behavior with respect to genetically modified seeds. Example from my admittedly poor memory: A farmer's neighbor bought Monsanto's genetically modified seeds and some of the seeds blew into the farmers flield. Monsanto sued him and made him destroy all his seeds. When the farmer complained to the government he discover that the official responsible for representing his interests was on the board of Monsanto. As far as "feeding the hungry". Monsantos seeds are genetically modified produce plants that don't have replantable seeds i.e. every year you have to buy your seeds from Monsanto. The 3rd world can't afford to use Monsanto's seeds and our subsidies of the corn industry make is hard for 3rd world farmers to make a living.

by kongqiu 15y ago

andylei 15y ago

the difference is that right now, you or anyone else in the thread can convincingly list a bunch of bad things they have done. so far, there is not a single convincing (and barely any substantive) comments about the bad things monsanto has done. if you disagree, please, let's discuss why monsanto is, as many here claim, "evil"

SkyMarshal 15y ago
I don't have time to get into that discussion, but if you google "the most evil company in the world" you'll see they're fighting it out with De Beers and one or two others for the top spot. There's also plenty on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto They're basically 80s/90s Microsoft at its worst, but in agriculture of both the developed and developing world (the latter being particularly heinous).
- 0x12 15y ago
  Monsanto makes Microsoft look pretty good.
- tptacek 15y ago
  You don't think you're maybe proving the wrong point when, after being asked to provide evidence for the argument that Monsanto is evil, you respond "just Google for most evil company in the world"? If you really want to pursue that point, maybe you want to start by reconciling it with the fact that by that scale, Monsanto is competing with Activision, Ford Motor, and Coca Cola (all of which appear alongside it on the top half of the first Google SERP for "most evil company in the world").
- andylei 15y ago
  i'm seeing literally dozens of comments saying that it monsanto is the most evil company that exists, and literally, not one comment giving a single concrete reason why it is. why is hitler evil? i can tell you in 8 words. he ordered the deaths of millions of people. why is monsanto evil? seriously, name ONE thing that makes them evil.
  - pbreit 15y ago
    Monsanto knowingly engages in unethical activities that could jeopardize large portions of the world's food supply.
    - andylei 15y ago
      what are these activities? producing GMOs? high yield crops have enabled the feeding of hundreds of millions if not billions of people who would otherwise died of starvation.
      - puredemo 15y ago
        http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3106488 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3106488 Nothing wrong with GMOs, lots and lots wrong with Monsanto.

irrumator 15y ago

Yes, because Hacker News is for civilized, rational discussion. Not '+1 !'s, not analogies to the Nazi regime, not a litany of profanity to a hard-working young startup, and not more hivemind think from Reddit. The kind of hivemind that downvotes any contrary opinion and upvotes the tasteless, content-free posts you see at the top. We can discourse in more substantial words than "F- that!". Multiple '?!?' becoming more common aren't a good sign.

kongqiu 15y ago
There's a place in civilized, rational discussion for ranting. Let's say you're out with two friends discussing the war on drugs, with all kinds of rational, civilized debate on the science, politics, economics, sociology, etc. Suddenly, one friend declares, "Ok, I understand the risks and potential rewards, and I've decided to start dealing coke." Sure, you can try to calmly talk them out of it, and/or you could do some "ranting." Both would be appropriate. "Hivemind" indeed.
- irrumator 15y ago
  If we can quit the absurd analogies all over this thread for a minute, can you point me to why Monsanto is so evil in your eyes? Other than a Vanity piece, it seems everyone has come to a preconcluded fact that Monsanto is "evil" somehow. Cloudant is a business, and this is great for their financials, as well as for furthering the research in their tech stack. From reading it, I'm sure many on Hacker News use similar tools that will benefit from the research done by Cloudant.
  - chrisbennet 15y ago
    The documentary "Food Inc" describes Monsanto's behavior with respect to genetically modified seeds. Example from my admittedly poor memory: A farmer's neighbor bought Monsanto's genetically modified seeds and some of the seeds blew into the farmers flield. Monsanto sued him and made him destroy all his seeds. When the farmer complained to the government he discover that the official responsible for representing his interests was on the board of Monsanto. As far as "feeding the hungry". Monsantos seeds are genetically modified produce plants that don't have replantable seeds i.e. every year you have to buy your seeds from Monsanto. The 3rd world can't afford to use Monsanto's seeds and our subsidies of the corn industry make is hard for 3rd world farmers to make a living.