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For anyone else reading, this does not seem like a qualified or legitimate take on Japanese life from my experience of a year of actually living in Tokyo. Maybe

For anyone else reading, this does not seem like a qualified or legitimate take on Japanese life from my experience of a year of actually living in Tokyo. Maybe the OP has had equal personal experience and just percieved it differently, but there's almost no chance a Japanese person in Tokyo would dine and dash, and being raised in their culture from birth absolutely does make one less inclined to do things like that. Post-modernist views that all cultures make people who are equally bad and good and that it has little effect simply don't hold up to even a cursory analysis of available statistics on the regional rates of crime/violence/exploitation worldwide.

wonderbore 4y ago
> from my experience of a year of actually living in Tokyo Sounds like we have an expert here. > there's almost no chance a Japanese person in Tokyo So you’re saying there’s a chance? GP did not say everyone does it, obviously Japan is very safe, but it’s far from perfect. People just don’t report everything and just don’t talk about it. Hang out around a pachinko to find out more about Japanese people.
drzaiusapelord 4y ago
- kortilla 4y ago
  > Its very important for someone with socially conservative views, which is most Americans depending where we move the overton window, to make sure to pretend that all people are as awful as them morally. Take a step back and read how fucked up your projection is here. Most Americans, let alone socially conservative ones, are not just avoiding stealing because they would get caught. > I was in Tokyo briefly and its very, very different than being in NYC or Chicago. NYC and Chicago are about as far as you can get from “socially conservative”, so it’s not clear what your narrative actually is here.
  - majormajor 4y ago
    > NYC and Chicago are about as far as you can get from “socially conservative”, so it’s not clear what your narrative actually is here. They aren't "socially conservative" in the "I hate gay people" way, but they certainly have the dog-eat-dog look-out-for-number-one fuck-you-got-mine American culture down pat. They're just more blatant about it than the "bless your heart" public-face-goes-to-church-and-is-friendly/private-face-exploits-their-employers rural American folks.
    - eggsbenedict 4y ago
      So, to get this straight, the working definition here for "socially conservative" is anyone who steals things or exploits others, regardless of whether they support gay rights or vote democrat. Yeah, in that light, these social conservatives do seem pretty bad.
      - sigstoat 4y ago
        > Yeah, in that light, these social conservatives do seem pretty bad. as always, the out group is awful.
      - cyberpunk 4y ago
        To be fair, the US democrat party would be considered middle right to most of the rest of the world.
robbedpeter 4y ago
Crime statistics only work if they're recorded honestly. Lots of crimes are seriously underreported in Japan, but it's been getting better over the last decade or so. Humans are humans are humans. Get any large enough group of them and some percent will be law breakers. This isn't post-modernist, it's common sense. Culture has an impact, obviously, but police corruption, underreporting, and maintaining reputation play a significant factor in Japan's low crime rates.
- buzzard1 4y ago
- MathYouF 4y ago
  I witnessed zero crimes committed living for a year in the middle of a 30 million person city (Tokyo) . I also witnessed no yelling, no littering, no fighting in public, no speaking loudly or playing music on public transportation, no public shouting of vulgarity, and no theft. I left my Macbook in a Starbucks unattended for an hour and walked around a mall and it was still there when I came back. All places and people and cultures are not the same. There are objective measures one can use to see this is true. Take a walk around Manhattan (~11 million) or any other city in the world and try to replicate my results. Culture matters and has an effect on making better citizens and therefore a better quality of life for everyone. It is not simply a matter of them pretending to have these virtues, they have them and the evidence is reflected both in numbers and ones personal experience if they visit.
  - hogehoge51 4y ago
    Having lived in Tokyo long enough to have witnessed crime (with blood on the pavement), reported crime to the police, have people admit their minor criminal behaviour to me, and also hear second hand reports of serous criminal behaviour of people I know, I would limit the time I leave a high end laptop unattended in a busy Starbucks to the time it takes to order a refill/snack or go to the toilet :-) in fact I’ve done it probably hundreds of times. Which is to say I have no real concerns about crime there, but am no idealist. I would not leave a laptop unattended in my own country for any amount of time, the culture of westerners is far more opportunistic for even minor individual gain, and much less conscious of one’s place in society.
GolDDranks 4y ago
Intrestingly, I was in a little bar in Ōimachi, Tokyo just the other day. (First time in ...years? Because of COVID-19.) A slightly drunk local guy stormed in with a printed security camera picture of a guy that had committed several dine & dash incidents (and a theft of some decorative jewelry) in the neighboring bars during the last weeks, the bar we were in being one of the victims. He came to hear the story of the owner of the bar and to confirm the guy in the picture was the same, and then left to spread the word to other places. I have lived almost 7 years in Japan, and this was the first time I heard of such an incident happening somewhere around me, but "食い逃げ" ("kuinige", dine & dash) is a word you tend to encounter here and there.
nicolas_t 4y ago
I would say petty theft is absolutely less common in Japan and I will leave my laptop in a starbucks while I go to the toilet or go to order something which I wouldn't in Europe or the US for example. However, I have seen crime in Japan, a close Japanese friend of my non-japanese ex-wife stole her bankbook and proceeded to withdraw money (my ex-wife used the same pin for her phone and her bankbook and so her friend most likely saw the pin from the phone). My ex-wife reported it to the police, the "friend" gave the money back and got a slap on the wrist but no real consequences. My female roommate also had a lot of experiences of various sexual crimes, over the 7 years she lived in Japan, her underwear were stolen once, she saw a flasher who was completely naked under his coat and opened it when she passed by and she was concerned enough by someone following her over multiple blocks that she went to the koban. And finally, as a male, I once went to the urinals in the toilet in osaka and noticed the guy to my right making noises, he was looking at me and touching himself... Kind of turned me off for years of public toilets. So, the myth of Japan being crimeless at least to me seems like a myth. Crime takes different form, sexual crimes are definitely in my anecdotal experience more common than in other countries, theft of belongings are definitely less of an issue than in Europe/US. Also, I don't think any of the above crimes would show up in statistics. I'm pretty sure the first one which was straight theft would not have been reported at all. However, as a counterpoint to reporting, my ex-wife knew of a foreign student at her university who stole for a bit more than 1,000 jpy of things from a combini, was deported and not allowed to enter Japan for 5 years. I'm pretty sure that any crime committed by foreigners in Japan will always be reported and treated harshly.
- kaybe 4y ago
  Unless it's umbrellas. I probably don't understand some social custom here, but what should I call it when I leave my umbrella at the entrance and it is gone when I come back 5 minutes later...
  - nicolas_t 4y ago
    If it's one of those clear umbrellas, it's borrowing from the common pool :) More seriously, yes umbrellas definitely disappear very quickly, I have however noticed that the more intricate an umbrella is, the less likely it is stolen.

wonderbore 4y ago

> from my experience of a year of actually living in Tokyo Sounds like we have an expert here. > there's almost no chance a Japanese person in Tokyo So you’re saying there’s a chance? GP did not say everyone does it, obviously Japan is very safe, but it’s far from perfect. People just don’t report everything and just don’t talk about it. Hang out around a pachinko to find out more about Japanese people.

drzaiusapelord 4y ago

kortilla 4y ago
> Its very important for someone with socially conservative views, which is most Americans depending where we move the overton window, to make sure to pretend that all people are as awful as them morally. Take a step back and read how fucked up your projection is here. Most Americans, let alone socially conservative ones, are not just avoiding stealing because they would get caught. > I was in Tokyo briefly and its very, very different than being in NYC or Chicago. NYC and Chicago are about as far as you can get from “socially conservative”, so it’s not clear what your narrative actually is here.
- majormajor 4y ago
  > NYC and Chicago are about as far as you can get from “socially conservative”, so it’s not clear what your narrative actually is here. They aren't "socially conservative" in the "I hate gay people" way, but they certainly have the dog-eat-dog look-out-for-number-one fuck-you-got-mine American culture down pat. They're just more blatant about it than the "bless your heart" public-face-goes-to-church-and-is-friendly/private-face-exploits-their-employers rural American folks.
  - eggsbenedict 4y ago
    So, to get this straight, the working definition here for "socially conservative" is anyone who steals things or exploits others, regardless of whether they support gay rights or vote democrat. Yeah, in that light, these social conservatives do seem pretty bad.
    - sigstoat 4y ago
      > Yeah, in that light, these social conservatives do seem pretty bad. as always, the out group is awful.
    - cyberpunk 4y ago
      To be fair, the US democrat party would be considered middle right to most of the rest of the world.

robbedpeter 4y ago

Crime statistics only work if they're recorded honestly. Lots of crimes are seriously underreported in Japan, but it's been getting better over the last decade or so. Humans are humans are humans. Get any large enough group of them and some percent will be law breakers. This isn't post-modernist, it's common sense. Culture has an impact, obviously, but police corruption, underreporting, and maintaining reputation play a significant factor in Japan's low crime rates.

buzzard1 4y ago
MathYouF 4y ago
I witnessed zero crimes committed living for a year in the middle of a 30 million person city (Tokyo) . I also witnessed no yelling, no littering, no fighting in public, no speaking loudly or playing music on public transportation, no public shouting of vulgarity, and no theft. I left my Macbook in a Starbucks unattended for an hour and walked around a mall and it was still there when I came back. All places and people and cultures are not the same. There are objective measures one can use to see this is true. Take a walk around Manhattan (~11 million) or any other city in the world and try to replicate my results. Culture matters and has an effect on making better citizens and therefore a better quality of life for everyone. It is not simply a matter of them pretending to have these virtues, they have them and the evidence is reflected both in numbers and ones personal experience if they visit.
- hogehoge51 4y ago
  Having lived in Tokyo long enough to have witnessed crime (with blood on the pavement), reported crime to the police, have people admit their minor criminal behaviour to me, and also hear second hand reports of serous criminal behaviour of people I know, I would limit the time I leave a high end laptop unattended in a busy Starbucks to the time it takes to order a refill/snack or go to the toilet :-) in fact I’ve done it probably hundreds of times. Which is to say I have no real concerns about crime there, but am no idealist. I would not leave a laptop unattended in my own country for any amount of time, the culture of westerners is far more opportunistic for even minor individual gain, and much less conscious of one’s place in society.

GolDDranks 4y ago

Intrestingly, I was in a little bar in Ōimachi, Tokyo just the other day. (First time in ...years? Because of COVID-19.) A slightly drunk local guy stormed in with a printed security camera picture of a guy that had committed several dine & dash incidents (and a theft of some decorative jewelry) in the neighboring bars during the last weeks, the bar we were in being one of the victims. He came to hear the story of the owner of the bar and to confirm the guy in the picture was the same, and then left to spread the word to other places. I have lived almost 7 years in Japan, and this was the first time I heard of such an incident happening somewhere around me, but "食い逃げ" ("kuinige", dine & dash) is a word you tend to encounter here and there.

nicolas_t 4y ago

I would say petty theft is absolutely less common in Japan and I will leave my laptop in a starbucks while I go to the toilet or go to order something which I wouldn't in Europe or the US for example. However, I have seen crime in Japan, a close Japanese friend of my non-japanese ex-wife stole her bankbook and proceeded to withdraw money (my ex-wife used the same pin for her phone and her bankbook and so her friend most likely saw the pin from the phone). My ex-wife reported it to the police, the "friend" gave the money back and got a slap on the wrist but no real consequences. My female roommate also had a lot of experiences of various sexual crimes, over the 7 years she lived in Japan, her underwear were stolen once, she saw a flasher who was completely naked under his coat and opened it when she passed by and she was concerned enough by someone following her over multiple blocks that she went to the koban. And finally, as a male, I once went to the urinals in the toilet in osaka and noticed the guy to my right making noises, he was looking at me and touching himself... Kind of turned me off for years of public toilets. So, the myth of Japan being crimeless at least to me seems like a myth. Crime takes different form, sexual crimes are definitely in my anecdotal experience more common than in other countries, theft of belongings are definitely less of an issue than in Europe/US. Also, I don't think any of the above crimes would show up in statistics. I'm pretty sure the first one which was straight theft would not have been reported at all. However, as a counterpoint to reporting, my ex-wife knew of a foreign student at her university who stole for a bit more than 1,000 jpy of things from a combini, was deported and not allowed to enter Japan for 5 years. I'm pretty sure that any crime committed by foreigners in Japan will always be reported and treated harshly.

kaybe 4y ago
Unless it's umbrellas. I probably don't understand some social custom here, but what should I call it when I leave my umbrella at the entrance and it is gone when I come back 5 minutes later...
- nicolas_t 4y ago
  If it's one of those clear umbrellas, it's borrowing from the common pool :) More seriously, yes umbrellas definitely disappear very quickly, I have however noticed that the more intricate an umbrella is, the less likely it is stolen.