14 ms·

Cities aren't loud, cars (and trucks) are loud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 Video discusses this th

Cities aren't loud, cars (and trucks) are loud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 Video discusses this thoroughly. There ARE quiet cities amazingly enough. And suburbs are a HUGE source of the noise IN the cities they surround because it's the car traffic from suburbs into the cities that makes much of the noise. Cities ARE loud, but they don't HAVE to be.

sarchertech 4y ago
Sure, but neither do suburbs. You could mandate everyone drive electric vehicles with tires optimized for low road noise.
- ajuc 4y ago
  Tesla going 90 km/h is almost as noisy as regular car going 90 km/h. Engine noise only dominates at low speeds.
  - sarchertech 4y ago
    1. Notice I said tires optimized for road noise. 2. Most suburban homes in the US are far enough from roads with 55 mph speed limits that high speed road noise isn’t penetrating the home.
    - datameta 4y ago
      And most residential areas in cities have a 25-30mpg speed limit
  - eurasiantiger 4y ago
    And what is the speed limit right outside your house/apartment?
    - ajuc 4y ago
      On small roads between the blocks ("strefa zamieszkania") it's 20 km/h. Also pedestrians have right of way over cars on these roads everywhere, no matter the crossings. Usually these roads are made of bricks and have these "bumps" so you won't go much faster even if you wanted to. That's the closest road to me (like 50 meters from my flat). On regular roads it's 50 km/h. There's one like 300 meters from my flat. On a few big multilane roads it's 90 km/h or more but the closest such road is 700 meters from my flat, and it has these noise-cancelling panels around it.
      - burntoutfire 4y ago
        It's worth adding that 90%+ of Polish drivers ignore speed limits...There's hardly any police or speeding cameras (apart from a few selected areas which everyone knows about, and does not speed there), so the speed limits really work on sort of "opt-in" basis.
        ajuc 4y ago
        Eh, sure, but on the local "strefa zamieszkania" nobody goes over 30 km/h. You hardly can go faster there.
- quadrangle 4y ago
  Well, given that the whole suburban sprawl style is also financially reckless and unsustainable, the answer is to get rid of car-dependent style of development and life entirely, not just tweak it by going for electric cars.
bogomipz 4y ago
How about the non-stop construction and non-stop road work? How about clubs and bars with outdoor speakers? Helicopters, industrial cooling/HVAC. I could go on. It's far more than just cars. What are these quiet cities that magically have none of these things?
- goodpoint 4y ago
  > What are these quiet cities that magically have none of these things? There is no magic, just legal regulation and it just works. Switzerland and Japan are good examples.
  - quadrangle 4y ago
    As the video I posted mentions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 The Dutch city of Delft in particular is just intentionally designed to care about noise. Both design and regulations. Turns out that when you simply prioritize reducing noise, it's actually doable. And it's still a city, albeit a modest-sized small city, not a major regional hub or a global-level metropolis. But the lessons can be applied anywhere.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  I never noticed, walking around the nicer European cities, that any of those things made nearly the same level of noise as the cars. Seriously, walk through Paris or something and tell me that clubs and bars and helicopters and AC are even nearly as loud as the cars when you walk next to a busy road. I can't think of an exception to this in any city I've been in, honestly. Which cities have lots of clubs and bars with loud speakers out the front? Is that common in the states?
  - bogomipz 4y ago
    Miami, NYC, LA to name a few. And it's far more prevalent now since covid as most places have some outdoor seating now and they've seemingly all installed speakers.
agumonkey 4y ago
And electric vehicles are a lot less so. Everytime I get passed by an e-bike my brain has a little pleasure seizure from not having to suffer the expected rawkus.
- afiori 4y ago
  vehicles are make noise with the engine and wheels, so light electric vehicles are super quiet, but heavy vehicles tend to be loud regardless when moving fast
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    Fair point
  - wongarsu 4y ago
    Electric cars are certainly far from silent, and somewhere at the high end of city speeds they are hard to distinguish from other cars because most of the sound comes from the tires. But subjectively I don't mind the tire noise nearly as much as the sound of an accelerating petrol engine.
    - sjg007 4y ago
      It all sucks. High pitched tire wine, unbalanced thumps. Diesel engines are the worst.
    - ryukafalz 4y ago
      When I’m walking next to a busy road (which the only two multiuse pathways near me are next to), it’s quite loud and most of the noise is tire noise. (To the point where you have to shout to have a conversation with someone walking with you.) Those trails would be much more pleasant without the cars there, electric or not.
    - afiori 4y ago
      True, but tire noise is sort of proportional to both weight and speed and electric vehicles are on average heavier due to huge batteries. So a fully electrified city would have a very different noise profile but not necessarily quieter or louder.
aconsult1 4y ago
It's funny how my brain reacts to all caps very similarly as if someone is literally shouting in front of me during a conversation. Must be the decades of internet forums and emails. The first time you shouted my eye was twitching. By the third time I could almost feel a stroke coming from the increase in noise pollution. Humans are so susceptible... pfff
refurb 4y ago
Not true at all. Currently live in a dense city in Asia. Remove all the personal vehicles and it would still be noisy as hell. Just business vehicles delivering food, removing trash, etc. are a decent amount of noise. The high building density reflects and concentrates the noise. Then add in construction, road work. Even the worker moving trash bins around by hand every evening is loud. Pure fantasy to have dense city living an little noise.

sarchertech 4y ago

Sure, but neither do suburbs. You could mandate everyone drive electric vehicles with tires optimized for low road noise.

ajuc 4y ago
Tesla going 90 km/h is almost as noisy as regular car going 90 km/h. Engine noise only dominates at low speeds.
- sarchertech 4y ago
  1. Notice I said tires optimized for road noise. 2. Most suburban homes in the US are far enough from roads with 55 mph speed limits that high speed road noise isn’t penetrating the home.
  - datameta 4y ago
    And most residential areas in cities have a 25-30mpg speed limit
- eurasiantiger 4y ago
  And what is the speed limit right outside your house/apartment?
  - ajuc 4y ago
    On small roads between the blocks ("strefa zamieszkania") it's 20 km/h. Also pedestrians have right of way over cars on these roads everywhere, no matter the crossings. Usually these roads are made of bricks and have these "bumps" so you won't go much faster even if you wanted to. That's the closest road to me (like 50 meters from my flat). On regular roads it's 50 km/h. There's one like 300 meters from my flat. On a few big multilane roads it's 90 km/h or more but the closest such road is 700 meters from my flat, and it has these noise-cancelling panels around it.
    - burntoutfire 4y ago
      It's worth adding that 90%+ of Polish drivers ignore speed limits...There's hardly any police or speeding cameras (apart from a few selected areas which everyone knows about, and does not speed there), so the speed limits really work on sort of "opt-in" basis.
      - ajuc 4y ago
        Eh, sure, but on the local "strefa zamieszkania" nobody goes over 30 km/h. You hardly can go faster there.
quadrangle 4y ago
Well, given that the whole suburban sprawl style is also financially reckless and unsustainable, the answer is to get rid of car-dependent style of development and life entirely, not just tweak it by going for electric cars.

bogomipz 4y ago

How about the non-stop construction and non-stop road work? How about clubs and bars with outdoor speakers? Helicopters, industrial cooling/HVAC. I could go on. It's far more than just cars. What are these quiet cities that magically have none of these things?

goodpoint 4y ago
> What are these quiet cities that magically have none of these things? There is no magic, just legal regulation and it just works. Switzerland and Japan are good examples.
- quadrangle 4y ago
  As the video I posted mentions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 The Dutch city of Delft in particular is just intentionally designed to care about noise. Both design and regulations. Turns out that when you simply prioritize reducing noise, it's actually doable. And it's still a city, albeit a modest-sized small city, not a major regional hub or a global-level metropolis. But the lessons can be applied anywhere.
bigDinosaur 4y ago
I never noticed, walking around the nicer European cities, that any of those things made nearly the same level of noise as the cars. Seriously, walk through Paris or something and tell me that clubs and bars and helicopters and AC are even nearly as loud as the cars when you walk next to a busy road. I can't think of an exception to this in any city I've been in, honestly. Which cities have lots of clubs and bars with loud speakers out the front? Is that common in the states?
- bogomipz 4y ago
  Miami, NYC, LA to name a few. And it's far more prevalent now since covid as most places have some outdoor seating now and they've seemingly all installed speakers.

agumonkey 4y ago

And electric vehicles are a lot less so. Everytime I get passed by an e-bike my brain has a little pleasure seizure from not having to suffer the expected rawkus.

afiori 4y ago
vehicles are make noise with the engine and wheels, so light electric vehicles are super quiet, but heavy vehicles tend to be loud regardless when moving fast
- agumonkey 4y ago
  Fair point
- wongarsu 4y ago
  Electric cars are certainly far from silent, and somewhere at the high end of city speeds they are hard to distinguish from other cars because most of the sound comes from the tires. But subjectively I don't mind the tire noise nearly as much as the sound of an accelerating petrol engine.
  - sjg007 4y ago
    It all sucks. High pitched tire wine, unbalanced thumps. Diesel engines are the worst.
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    When I’m walking next to a busy road (which the only two multiuse pathways near me are next to), it’s quite loud and most of the noise is tire noise. (To the point where you have to shout to have a conversation with someone walking with you.) Those trails would be much more pleasant without the cars there, electric or not.
  - afiori 4y ago
    True, but tire noise is sort of proportional to both weight and speed and electric vehicles are on average heavier due to huge batteries. So a fully electrified city would have a very different noise profile but not necessarily quieter or louder.

aconsult1 4y ago

It's funny how my brain reacts to all caps very similarly as if someone is literally shouting in front of me during a conversation. Must be the decades of internet forums and emails. The first time you shouted my eye was twitching. By the third time I could almost feel a stroke coming from the increase in noise pollution. Humans are so susceptible... pfff

refurb 4y ago

Not true at all. Currently live in a dense city in Asia. Remove all the personal vehicles and it would still be noisy as hell. Just business vehicles delivering food, removing trash, etc. are a decent amount of noise. The high building density reflects and concentrates the noise. Then add in construction, road work. Even the worker moving trash bins around by hand every evening is loud. Pure fantasy to have dense city living an little noise.