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>Then why did the iPod/iPhone/iPad come from Apple and not Produce? Because an entrepreneur called Steve Jobs delivered the product first. Just because a conce

by Produce 15y ago

>Then why did the iPod/iPhone/iPad come from Apple and not Produce? Because an entrepreneur called Steve Jobs delivered the product first. Just because a concept is in the culture it doesn't mean that it has been realised. >Really? All the dev tools I use work better on Mac than windows. I don't really care how well they work on Linux because the Linux desktop makes me spend too much time doing something I don't care about: administration (which is why I dropped Windows too, btw). I have no experience with their dev tools so I can't comment on that. Hacker culture is one of freedom and exploration. If you're going to argue that Apple somehow represent those values then we should just move on to the next point. >Nice, everyone loves judgmental people. Just like everyone loves judging these words I'm typing? >Even if you're right, who cares? As you say, he was a great entrepreneur. In some ways, that's the greatest of hacking: hacking the world into wanting something you've made. The common word for that is marketing. >Again, he put the computer in our hands in a way that no one had before (at least not to that level). If we ever get to the star trek or minority report (the good technology parts) world, what Jobs made will be the first steps of the stairs that take us there. That's not a "superficial" impact. No, the first steps were made by Xerox, IBM, Stanley Kubrick, the writers of Star Trek, and various others. This is very far from the first step - the concept was already in place, material industries already had the capability to create things like gorilla glass, there were already hundreds of prototypes (i.e. the initial tablet PC's). Jobs did what any good business man does, he saw an opportunity and took it, to which I respond with an emphatic 'so what?'. It's like crack dealers say - 'if I don't sell it, someone else will'. That's the rule of business. Yet why do we forget that it wasn't Jobs who put in all of those thousands (millions?) of man-hours to develop these products? He provided some non/functional requirements then people who are competent with technology brought them to fruition. Why is one person saying 'this is good' or 'this is bad' get so much attention yet the people who did the work are not only forgotten about but have their labor attributed to someone else? One could argue that it wouldn't have happened without him. Well it wouldn't have happened without the 20,000 other people either. Honestly, if I'm going to idolize someone then it damn well better be someone who's made humanity better off by helping to solve it's perpetual problems or exploring the boundaries of what we know. This is so boring in comparison. Someone packaged up existing stuff into a polished product and sold it to lots of people. I really don't get it. And to everyone calling me a troll, that word is reserved for people who feign a type of personality in order to bait others into becoming angry. This is my opinion and I can assure you that I am not trolling.

danssig 15y ago
>If you're going to argue that Apple somehow represent those values then we should just move on to the next point. Mac OSX is quite open [1]. No, their IOS devices aren't as open and I'm glad of that. IOS devices are appliances, not full power computers [2]. That means I don't have to fiddle with it to get it to work. It just works, or it's defective so I replace it. Most people aren't geeks and shouldn't be forced to be. Hollywood doesn't force us to take stage acting classes just to watch a movie. We shouldn't make using the Internet something one needs a class for. >Honestly, if I'm going to idolize someone Do you know what this site is about? It's largely about entrepreneurship. Steve did what we all dream of: he followed his dream and managed to change the world. Did he solder every chip, carve out ever piece of plastic by hand? Of course not. No one man could do all those things. But it was his vision and he did what it took to make it happen. [1] http://opensource.apple.com/ http://opensource.apple.com/ [2] Even if the hardware could support such a thing. This is more of a concept, a way of looking at the devices.
- Produce 15y ago
  > IOS devices are appliances, not full power computers [2]. That means I don't have to fiddle with it to get it to work. It just works, or it's defective so I replace it. Most people aren't geeks and shouldn't be forced to be. This is exactly why Apple is anti-hacker. >Hollywood doesn't force us to take stage acting classes just to watch a movie. We shouldn't make using the Internet something one needs a class for. Yet we spend years learning how to operate the human machine. Yet more years learning how to communicate with other humans. Learning how to use a pen. How to walk. How to read, write and do math. How to ride and repair a bike. If the internet is considered a basic essential utility by the UN then why should people not be educated on it as they are with math? Why should this class of tools require no learning when all other tools do? To go off on a slight tangent, why is it so widely accepted that everything should be easy and require no thought? Since when do we celebrate ignorance? Did I miss a memo? There is a clear benefit to understanding your tools which is that they become more effective. Not to mention that one is also able to fix and tailor them to one's needs. We're getting extremely efficient and at the same time incredibly stupid. Should the house of cards fall down, not many will know what to do. Anyway, this goes back to the trade-off between efficiency and robustness. I feel that we are too far in the former direction. >Do you know what this site is about? It's largely about entrepreneurship. Steve did what we all dream of: he followed his dream and managed to change the world. Did he solder every chip, carve out ever piece of plastic by hand? Of course not. No one man could do all those things. But it was his vision and he did what it took to make it happen. Like I said, I respect his entrepreneurship but, personally, I think that it's foolish to idolize a businessman, or anyone who makes greed their life, for that matter. There are countless people more deserving of this level of attention.

by Produce 15y ago

danssig 15y ago

>If you're going to argue that Apple somehow represent those values then we should just move on to the next point. Mac OSX is quite open [1]. No, their IOS devices aren't as open and I'm glad of that. IOS devices are appliances, not full power computers [2]. That means I don't have to fiddle with it to get it to work. It just works, or it's defective so I replace it. Most people aren't geeks and shouldn't be forced to be. Hollywood doesn't force us to take stage acting classes just to watch a movie. We shouldn't make using the Internet something one needs a class for. >Honestly, if I'm going to idolize someone Do you know what this site is about? It's largely about entrepreneurship. Steve did what we all dream of: he followed his dream and managed to change the world. Did he solder every chip, carve out ever piece of plastic by hand? Of course not. No one man could do all those things. But it was his vision and he did what it took to make it happen. [1] http://opensource.apple.com/ http://opensource.apple.com/ [2] Even if the hardware could support such a thing. This is more of a concept, a way of looking at the devices.

Produce 15y ago
> IOS devices are appliances, not full power computers [2]. That means I don't have to fiddle with it to get it to work. It just works, or it's defective so I replace it. Most people aren't geeks and shouldn't be forced to be. This is exactly why Apple is anti-hacker. >Hollywood doesn't force us to take stage acting classes just to watch a movie. We shouldn't make using the Internet something one needs a class for. Yet we spend years learning how to operate the human machine. Yet more years learning how to communicate with other humans. Learning how to use a pen. How to walk. How to read, write and do math. How to ride and repair a bike. If the internet is considered a basic essential utility by the UN then why should people not be educated on it as they are with math? Why should this class of tools require no learning when all other tools do? To go off on a slight tangent, why is it so widely accepted that everything should be easy and require no thought? Since when do we celebrate ignorance? Did I miss a memo? There is a clear benefit to understanding your tools which is that they become more effective. Not to mention that one is also able to fix and tailor them to one's needs. We're getting extremely efficient and at the same time incredibly stupid. Should the house of cards fall down, not many will know what to do. Anyway, this goes back to the trade-off between efficiency and robustness. I feel that we are too far in the former direction. >Do you know what this site is about? It's largely about entrepreneurship. Steve did what we all dream of: he followed his dream and managed to change the world. Did he solder every chip, carve out ever piece of plastic by hand? Of course not. No one man could do all those things. But it was his vision and he did what it took to make it happen. Like I said, I respect his entrepreneurship but, personally, I think that it's foolish to idolize a businessman, or anyone who makes greed their life, for that matter. There are countless people more deserving of this level of attention.