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1. You may find a (very) small fraction of Putin supporters among Russian immigrants in general but among the latest wave it is as low as ever. Many my friends

1. You may find a (very) small fraction of Putin supporters among Russian immigrants in general but among the latest wave it is as low as ever. Many my friends and acquaintances left Russia in the wake of the war and none supports it (or Putin). 2. I expect fraction of Putin supporters among Russian immigrants to be highest among people immigrated in 1990s - many (but definitely not all) from this generation continued to watch Russian TV while living abroad. In 1990x Russia had relatively free press but Putin slowly turned it into a propaganda tool and this slow transition allowed Russian TV to keep old audience. 3. Support of Democrat/Republican IMO has little to do with the support of Putin or Russian government. I don't even think Republicans hate Russia less than Democrats. Trump showed a fondness for Putin but didn't do anything that would benefit Russia, quite the opposite. If you are not in a partisan bubble choice between Democrats and Republicans is not the choice between good and evil, it is an attempt to choose a less evil one. Russian immigrants know too well that socialism failed in the Soviet Union and Democrats talking about socialism can be enough to tilt the scales.

spacemanmatt 4y ago
> rump showed a fondness for Putin but didn't do anything that would benefit Russia, quite the opposite. I would count photo ops with Putin and Kislyak in the WH as a win, but not as big as Trump blackmailing Ukraine or openly floating a U.S. pullout from NATO. We're talking about the same Trump, right? The Russians and Ukrainians I have met in the U.S. all bring up corruption, not the failure of socialism. They tend to be pretty clear on their politics.
VincentEvans 4y ago
I am russian born (thats just for context). I feel incredibly fortunate that this war happened when Trump is no longer in office. I think were it happen while Trump was actively disparaging NATO, sowing discord among allies, ridiculing soft power of liberal democracies, all happening against a backdrop of deferring to tyrants and dictators, a spinning rotating door of chiefs of staff and secretaries of state at the White House, self-pitying rallies of sycophants, daily scandals, active sabotage of long-standing institutions of government with loyal figureheads, holding military aid to Ukraine hostage for political blackmail, questioning the need of foreign aid for populist points, the pattern of denial, shifting responsibility, blaming others as a response to pandemic… Need I go on? I don’t think Putin would’ve needed much more than that to tip the scales in his favor. In my opinion Putin either tremendously miscalculated the timing of the invasion to after Trumps term in the office, or was expecting his second term to bring about even more fertile conditions.
- zthrowaway 4y ago
  Disparaging NATO by making sure other countries increased their spending that they skimped out on? His goal was to increase NATO defenses against Russia. All administration staffing and mean tweet problems aside, there’s a reason Putin waited until Trump was out. Trump was very unpredictable and that alone prevented this from happening years ago.
  - VincentEvans 4y ago
    Right, it wasn’t astonishing incompetence, fluent morality, and unrestrained narcissism, but rather a strategically clever display of unpredictability to keep the enemies off-balance and guessing. It’s like Roosevelt said, “yell whatever comes out of your mouth and carry a big retinue of inexperienced but loyal sycophants” diplomacy. Thanks, Throwaway!
    - emptysongglass 4y ago
      - JeremyBanks 4y ago
      - VincentEvans 4y ago
        Firstly, because it wasn’t “asking” - it was a populist performance for the benefit of supporters. The unprecedented sanctions against Russia you are witnessing now are result of appropriate diplomacy that was conducted skillfully and effectively. Just to point out the difference. Secondly, Bill Barr has gone on record to claim that it was a pretext of pulling out of NATO entirely if Trump was going to win a second term. You don’t believe Bill Barr, fine, but I don’t see why he is any less believable than Trump. Thirdly, I’ve stated a dozen of things that point to Trumps capacity to inflict damage to international coalition that allows US to wield influence, including withholding military aid to Ukraine to pressure them to implicate Biden for political gain, the same Ukraine that figures in the latest events in case you didn’t notice. However the poster did not bother addressing any of that - why should I treat their response with any more rigor than they afforded me?
JohnClark1337 4y ago

spacemanmatt 4y ago

> rump showed a fondness for Putin but didn't do anything that would benefit Russia, quite the opposite. I would count photo ops with Putin and Kislyak in the WH as a win, but not as big as Trump blackmailing Ukraine or openly floating a U.S. pullout from NATO. We're talking about the same Trump, right? The Russians and Ukrainians I have met in the U.S. all bring up corruption, not the failure of socialism. They tend to be pretty clear on their politics.

VincentEvans 4y ago

I am russian born (thats just for context). I feel incredibly fortunate that this war happened when Trump is no longer in office. I think were it happen while Trump was actively disparaging NATO, sowing discord among allies, ridiculing soft power of liberal democracies, all happening against a backdrop of deferring to tyrants and dictators, a spinning rotating door of chiefs of staff and secretaries of state at the White House, self-pitying rallies of sycophants, daily scandals, active sabotage of long-standing institutions of government with loyal figureheads, holding military aid to Ukraine hostage for political blackmail, questioning the need of foreign aid for populist points, the pattern of denial, shifting responsibility, blaming others as a response to pandemic… Need I go on? I don’t think Putin would’ve needed much more than that to tip the scales in his favor. In my opinion Putin either tremendously miscalculated the timing of the invasion to after Trumps term in the office, or was expecting his second term to bring about even more fertile conditions.

zthrowaway 4y ago
Disparaging NATO by making sure other countries increased their spending that they skimped out on? His goal was to increase NATO defenses against Russia. All administration staffing and mean tweet problems aside, there’s a reason Putin waited until Trump was out. Trump was very unpredictable and that alone prevented this from happening years ago.
- VincentEvans 4y ago
  Right, it wasn’t astonishing incompetence, fluent morality, and unrestrained narcissism, but rather a strategically clever display of unpredictability to keep the enemies off-balance and guessing. It’s like Roosevelt said, “yell whatever comes out of your mouth and carry a big retinue of inexperienced but loyal sycophants” diplomacy. Thanks, Throwaway!
  - emptysongglass 4y ago
    - JeremyBanks 4y ago
    - VincentEvans 4y ago
      Firstly, because it wasn’t “asking” - it was a populist performance for the benefit of supporters. The unprecedented sanctions against Russia you are witnessing now are result of appropriate diplomacy that was conducted skillfully and effectively. Just to point out the difference. Secondly, Bill Barr has gone on record to claim that it was a pretext of pulling out of NATO entirely if Trump was going to win a second term. You don’t believe Bill Barr, fine, but I don’t see why he is any less believable than Trump. Thirdly, I’ve stated a dozen of things that point to Trumps capacity to inflict damage to international coalition that allows US to wield influence, including withholding military aid to Ukraine to pressure them to implicate Biden for political gain, the same Ukraine that figures in the latest events in case you didn’t notice. However the poster did not bother addressing any of that - why should I treat their response with any more rigor than they afforded me?

JohnClark1337 4y ago