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Wife and I had an unlikely pregnancy ourselves. We tried for possibly 8 years with no luck, finally we gave in and started the process to do in vitro with enta

Wife and I had an unlikely pregnancy ourselves. We tried for possibly 8 years with no luck, finally we gave in and started the process to do in vitro with entailed lots of tests and everything. Then, the day before we were scheduled to start the process (during xmas no less) and lay down a lot of $$$ for the procedure, wife takes a pregnancy test and shockingly, it indicates positive. Kid was born healthy and happy. I hesitate to call him some kind of xmas miracle kid, but I mean.. the context and everything really drove the point home. :)

gonzo41 4y ago
I'm really happy you saved a ton of money and got what you wanted. IVF is not only mega costly, it's also a brutal roller coaster of emotions for all involved.
- hamburglar 4y ago
  Indeed. I went through that for second kid and it was just excruciatingly bad for my wife. 28 day cycle of absolute misery and disappointment for months. We are divorced now but I still feel bad for what she experienced emotionally.
- royjacobs 4y ago
  Unless you live in a country like The Netherlands, where the first three IVF procedures are, in fact, free. I won't disagree with you on the roller coaster of emotions, though.
  - bleuarff 4y ago
    Or France, where the first 4 procedures are paid for by health services. Going to the pharmacy for the ovarian stimulation drugs for my wife and seeing the one-week treatment would have cost us hundreds of euros; I sure was glad to live in such a country!
  - burrows 4y ago
    What does the word “free” mean here? I assume the clinical professionals are paid and the researchers were paid and the pharma venders are paid, so that money is coming from somewhere. Is it that someone other than you pays for it?
    - royjacobs 4y ago
      Certainly. It's being paid for by the universal basic health care that our government provides. One of the reasons we pay taxes.
      - burrows 4y ago
        Okay, you give the government money (taxes) and then the government pays the clinics for your medical care (with the tax money). But doesn’t that mean you’re still paying for your own medical care with the government acting as a middle-man? So then it’s not free.
        kwhitefoot 4y ago
        You are missing the key feature: solidarity. It is not paying for your own medical care it is paying a small proportion of everyone's medical care. And in fact for a proportion of the population it is in fact free or nearly so because they have never paid any income tax or the cost was so high that the taxes they did pay plus the proceeds of selling very possession they had and selling their children into servitude still wasn't enough to pay for it. And lastly, we all understand the point of taxation and redistribution (at least in Europe we do) so what exactly was the point you were repeatedly failing to make clear?
        burrows 4y ago
        > And in fact for a proportion of the population it is in fact free or nearly so because they have never paid any income tax or the cost was so high that the taxes they did pay plus the proceeds of selling very possession they had and selling their children into servitude still wasn't enough to pay for it. Okay, so if the person receiving the service doesn’t pay taxes, then they do not pay for the service. And for everyone else that does pay taxes, it is a cost with no attendant service. > we all understand the point of taxation and redistribution (at least in Europe we do) What is the point? > what exactly was the point you were repeatedly failing to make clear? I don’t have some huge point. I’m just confused by this usage of “free”. There are other usages that I find confusing as well. A child tells his friends that everything on Amazon is free, meanwhile his parents silently pay for his purchases. Someone steals a car and tells her friends that she has a new free car.

gonzo41 4y ago

I'm really happy you saved a ton of money and got what you wanted. IVF is not only mega costly, it's also a brutal roller coaster of emotions for all involved.

hamburglar 4y ago
Indeed. I went through that for second kid and it was just excruciatingly bad for my wife. 28 day cycle of absolute misery and disappointment for months. We are divorced now but I still feel bad for what she experienced emotionally.
royjacobs 4y ago
Unless you live in a country like The Netherlands, where the first three IVF procedures are, in fact, free. I won't disagree with you on the roller coaster of emotions, though.
- bleuarff 4y ago
  Or France, where the first 4 procedures are paid for by health services. Going to the pharmacy for the ovarian stimulation drugs for my wife and seeing the one-week treatment would have cost us hundreds of euros; I sure was glad to live in such a country!
- burrows 4y ago
  What does the word “free” mean here? I assume the clinical professionals are paid and the researchers were paid and the pharma venders are paid, so that money is coming from somewhere. Is it that someone other than you pays for it?
  - royjacobs 4y ago
    Certainly. It's being paid for by the universal basic health care that our government provides. One of the reasons we pay taxes.
    - burrows 4y ago
      Okay, you give the government money (taxes) and then the government pays the clinics for your medical care (with the tax money). But doesn’t that mean you’re still paying for your own medical care with the government acting as a middle-man? So then it’s not free.
      - kwhitefoot 4y ago
        You are missing the key feature: solidarity. It is not paying for your own medical care it is paying a small proportion of everyone's medical care. And in fact for a proportion of the population it is in fact free or nearly so because they have never paid any income tax or the cost was so high that the taxes they did pay plus the proceeds of selling very possession they had and selling their children into servitude still wasn't enough to pay for it. And lastly, we all understand the point of taxation and redistribution (at least in Europe we do) so what exactly was the point you were repeatedly failing to make clear?
        burrows 4y ago
        > And in fact for a proportion of the population it is in fact free or nearly so because they have never paid any income tax or the cost was so high that the taxes they did pay plus the proceeds of selling very possession they had and selling their children into servitude still wasn't enough to pay for it. Okay, so if the person receiving the service doesn’t pay taxes, then they do not pay for the service. And for everyone else that does pay taxes, it is a cost with no attendant service. > we all understand the point of taxation and redistribution (at least in Europe we do) What is the point? > what exactly was the point you were repeatedly failing to make clear? I don’t have some huge point. I’m just confused by this usage of “free”. There are other usages that I find confusing as well. A child tells his friends that everything on Amazon is free, meanwhile his parents silently pay for his purchases. Someone steals a car and tells her friends that she has a new free car.