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> Bitcoin recognizes the history of the debasement of monies very well I understand that crypto evangelists say that they have "fixed" the problems with physic

> Bitcoin recognizes the history of the debasement of monies very well I understand that crypto evangelists say that they have "fixed" the problems with physical markets, but time and time again I see crypto projects repeating the biggest failures of monetary history. Ponzi schemes, pump-and-dump, corrupt or fraudulent banks, heists, money laundering, tax havens for the super-rich. In physical economics, we still have those problems but we've built up regulation and fluency to protect ourselves over hundreds of years, and crypto seems to be back in the wild west and people are seriously getting hurt by it. I can't take crypto seriously until it accepts that the regulation that it so desperately tries to avoid actually does protect people. > they're paid to push inflationism, which benefits the early receivers of new money at the expense of savers, fixed-wage earners and property owners. Tell me, how do cryptocurrencies benefit fixed-wage earners over "early recievers of new money"? Who do you think benefits most from crypto? It's not wage-workers. Crypto is just an unregulated market with unpredictable volatility, and as such it will always benefit those who can accept that risk early (rich people) more than the people who cant (not rich people).

tablespoon 4y ago
> I see crypto projects repeating the biggest failures of monetary history... > In physical economics, we still have those problems but we've built up regulation and fluency to protect ourselves over hundreds of years... Those regulations are a kind of advanced technology, but it's not computer technology, so too many "technologists" are blind to it. Most cryptocurrency technologies are pretty analogous to making a car in 2022 without seat-belts and without an effective replacement, and selling that as a feature. Seat-belt technology is ubiquitous for good reason and discarding that technology is dumb (or at least blinkered).
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  I agree completely with this. The vast majority of the "regulations" that crypto advocates want to avoid are basically financial tools to facilitate dispute resolution. It turns out that even if you are not dealing with explicit crooks - there are MANY reasons to have a method of reconciliation: People will break contracts (intentionally or unintentionally) and when disputes occur over contracts - we use lots of regulations to resolve those disputes. Things like: garnished wages, Frozen accounts, asset seizure, cancelled transactions, etc... So - as someone who has been involved with crypto, who has had fraud occur directly, and who used bitcoin at one of the very few times when it really did facilitate mostly value exchange instead of pure speculation (I was using MtGox to buy cannabis on the Silk road when they went down, back when a bitcoin was about 4 bucks - I still get the legal proceeding emails) - I find most "crypto advocates" to basically be snake oil salesmen. They are morally repugnant - and they are only seeking to make a quick buck through speculation in the best case, and they are actively defrauding folks in the worst (and still insanely common) case.
sparkie 4y ago
We seem to agree about 'crypto'. What we don't agree on is that you think Bitcoin is 'crypto'. Bitcoin is something else. It isn't pushed by a company selling snake-oil. It doesn't have a CEO. It's marketing budget is entirely provided by its users, and most importantly, nobody can ever inflate the supply of bitcoin beyond the predetermined release schedule. 21M bitcoin were set in stone when it was released. All 'crypto' is inflation, because it is created in a world where bitcoin, the fix, already exists. > Tell me, how do cryptocurrencies benefit fixed-wage earners over "early recievers of new money"? Again, not 'crypto', but bitcoin. You won't be able to grasp it until you separate these out. Bitcoin allows people to save without their savings being deliberately debased. Wage-workers are the people who need this most. They can't just throw money at stocks and shares to try and outpace inflation. If prices, in dollars are going to double in 9 years, how is a wage-worker supposed to save up to get a deposit for a mortgage when the value of what they've tried to save it is slashed in half? Bitcoin, on the other hand, has seen a doubling of purchasing power on average over any 4 years of its history, and will likely continue if fiat money continues to devalue (as it certainly will with the current clowns in charge.) w.r.t volatility, this does not matter if your goal is to save over an extended time. Bitcoin is volatile month to month, and between years, but there is absolutely no question about the way it trends over the long run. It's clear that holding dollars is a fools errand. https://usdsat.com https://usdsat.com

tablespoon 4y ago

> I see crypto projects repeating the biggest failures of monetary history... > In physical economics, we still have those problems but we've built up regulation and fluency to protect ourselves over hundreds of years... Those regulations are a kind of advanced technology, but it's not computer technology, so too many "technologists" are blind to it. Most cryptocurrency technologies are pretty analogous to making a car in 2022 without seat-belts and without an effective replacement, and selling that as a feature. Seat-belt technology is ubiquitous for good reason and discarding that technology is dumb (or at least blinkered).

horsawlarway 4y ago
I agree completely with this. The vast majority of the "regulations" that crypto advocates want to avoid are basically financial tools to facilitate dispute resolution. It turns out that even if you are not dealing with explicit crooks - there are MANY reasons to have a method of reconciliation: People will break contracts (intentionally or unintentionally) and when disputes occur over contracts - we use lots of regulations to resolve those disputes. Things like: garnished wages, Frozen accounts, asset seizure, cancelled transactions, etc... So - as someone who has been involved with crypto, who has had fraud occur directly, and who used bitcoin at one of the very few times when it really did facilitate mostly value exchange instead of pure speculation (I was using MtGox to buy cannabis on the Silk road when they went down, back when a bitcoin was about 4 bucks - I still get the legal proceeding emails) - I find most "crypto advocates" to basically be snake oil salesmen. They are morally repugnant - and they are only seeking to make a quick buck through speculation in the best case, and they are actively defrauding folks in the worst (and still insanely common) case.

sparkie 4y ago

We seem to agree about 'crypto'. What we don't agree on is that you think Bitcoin is 'crypto'. Bitcoin is something else. It isn't pushed by a company selling snake-oil. It doesn't have a CEO. It's marketing budget is entirely provided by its users, and most importantly, nobody can ever inflate the supply of bitcoin beyond the predetermined release schedule. 21M bitcoin were set in stone when it was released. All 'crypto' is inflation, because it is created in a world where bitcoin, the fix, already exists. > Tell me, how do cryptocurrencies benefit fixed-wage earners over "early recievers of new money"? Again, not 'crypto', but bitcoin. You won't be able to grasp it until you separate these out. Bitcoin allows people to save without their savings being deliberately debased. Wage-workers are the people who need this most. They can't just throw money at stocks and shares to try and outpace inflation. If prices, in dollars are going to double in 9 years, how is a wage-worker supposed to save up to get a deposit for a mortgage when the value of what they've tried to save it is slashed in half? Bitcoin, on the other hand, has seen a doubling of purchasing power on average over any 4 years of its history, and will likely continue if fiat money continues to devalue (as it certainly will with the current clowns in charge.) w.r.t volatility, this does not matter if your goal is to save over an extended time. Bitcoin is volatile month to month, and between years, but there is absolutely no question about the way it trends over the long run. It's clear that holding dollars is a fools errand. https://usdsat.com https://usdsat.com