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> Diesel motors generate a substantial amount of fine particulate that is unhealthy for anybody, and particularly unhealthy for children. This is one of the bi

by mtgx 5y ago

> Diesel motors generate a substantial amount of fine particulate that is unhealthy for anybody, and particularly unhealthy for children. This is one of the biggest issues with US' private healthcare system. The U.S. government just doesn't feel that direct "cost" in the same way countries that have to pay to fix the health of their citizens do. This is why you see a lot of other countries put higher taxes on sugar, gasoline, diesel, etc. Because they see a direct correlation between the consumption of those things and them having to invest more in their national healthcare system out of their tax money. Meanwhile, in the US, since it's the citizens that pay out of pocket, that money still goes into the economy, so it's kind of all the same to the government whether or not they get sick or not. They may notice some correlation in the long-term, but the negative effects of these things are not nearly as urgent to the government.

erosenbe0 5y ago
Nope, about 1/3 of Americans have Medicaid or Medicare. At least 6% of all gdp is government dollars in healthcare, probably more.
- DFHippie 5y ago
  The US spends about as much as peer nations on healthcare through taxes. Then it spends that much again in private expenses. In return it gets poorer health outcomes. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries-2/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... https://www.statista.com/statistics/237043/us-health-care-spending-distribution/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/237043/us-health-care-sp...
DaltonCoffee 5y ago
Canadian has free healthcare and still has diesel public/school buses
Barrin92 5y ago
Very true and also the reason for the exploding costs of the education system people complain about. In countries where universities run on public budgets you won't see exploding administrations and degree inflation because the state has a direct incentive to keep costs low rather than handing out loans that go to private institutions. Was honestly surprised when I saw that the rate of university graduation in the US is twice as high as it is here in Germany.
- stevekemp 5y ago
  I guess if you're a year/two into a course in America you'd probably have $20,000 in debt to pay. If you have to pay it without graduating then you'd probably think you'd wasted the money - so you'd be likely to finish the degree to make sure you got "something" out of it. By contrast here in Finland education is free, so it's a lot easier for people to start courses, and if it didn't suit then drop out. Or move cities, and get a job. Where education is free I'd expect both more people to sign up to it, but also more people to drop out. Or take 10+ years to eventually get their degree whilst continuing to work.
BurningFrog 5y ago
I really doubt this causation, for a few reasons. 1. Everyone gets sick and dies. Dying a bit earlier from diesel probably doesn't cost more than whatever you would have died from later. 2. These other countries also have government funded pension system. If people live longer that's an added expense! If you do the cynical math, government finances are best if people die of something cheap soon after they retire.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  Consider that, even for two people who die at the same age, the one who is sick for many years before dying probably incurs more healthcare costs.
stephen999 5y ago
Huh? Most of Europe has socialized medicine and they have a ton more diesels and thus air pollution than the US.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  Yes, that was a mistake. Diesel was promoted as lower C02 than petrol engines, before the problems with particulates were well known. (1) This is of course changing now. (2) As noted in the second link, a factor is the "Volkswagen emissions scandal", AKA "Dieselgate" (3) 1) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715 2) https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/98747/diesel-ban-the-future-of-diesel-cars-in-the-uk-and-beyond https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/98747/d... 3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
lenkite 5y ago
Lots of nations have public health-care and millions of diesel motors.
Amezarak 5y ago
This is simply false. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56571 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56571 > Federal Subsidies. In CBO and JCT’s projections, net federal subsidies (that is, the cost of all the subsidies minus the taxes and penalties) in 2021 for insured people are $920 billion, or 4.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). The US federal government (that is, excluding state and county governments, which also spend money on this) spends 920 billion dollars a year on health insurance and care. This also excludes the VA system (~200 billion), which does cover dependents. So that's 1.1 trillion per year by the federal government alone. To take California for an example, you can add another 100 billion in state spending on Medi-Cal. It's also not uncommon for counties and cities to operate and run their own hospital systems.

by mtgx 5y ago

erosenbe0 5y ago

Nope, about 1/3 of Americans have Medicaid or Medicare. At least 6% of all gdp is government dollars in healthcare, probably more.

DFHippie 5y ago
The US spends about as much as peer nations on healthcare through taxes. Then it spends that much again in private expenses. In return it gets poorer health outcomes. https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries-2/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... https://www.statista.com/statistics/237043/us-health-care-spending-distribution/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/237043/us-health-care-sp...

DaltonCoffee 5y ago

Canadian has free healthcare and still has diesel public/school buses

Barrin92 5y ago

Very true and also the reason for the exploding costs of the education system people complain about. In countries where universities run on public budgets you won't see exploding administrations and degree inflation because the state has a direct incentive to keep costs low rather than handing out loans that go to private institutions. Was honestly surprised when I saw that the rate of university graduation in the US is twice as high as it is here in Germany.

stevekemp 5y ago
I guess if you're a year/two into a course in America you'd probably have $20,000 in debt to pay. If you have to pay it without graduating then you'd probably think you'd wasted the money - so you'd be likely to finish the degree to make sure you got "something" out of it. By contrast here in Finland education is free, so it's a lot easier for people to start courses, and if it didn't suit then drop out. Or move cities, and get a job. Where education is free I'd expect both more people to sign up to it, but also more people to drop out. Or take 10+ years to eventually get their degree whilst continuing to work.

BurningFrog 5y ago

I really doubt this causation, for a few reasons. 1. Everyone gets sick and dies. Dying a bit earlier from diesel probably doesn't cost more than whatever you would have died from later. 2. These other countries also have government funded pension system. If people live longer that's an added expense! If you do the cynical math, government finances are best if people die of something cheap soon after they retire.

tshaddox 5y ago
Consider that, even for two people who die at the same age, the one who is sick for many years before dying probably incurs more healthcare costs.

stephen999 5y ago

Huh? Most of Europe has socialized medicine and they have a ton more diesels and thus air pollution than the US.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
Yes, that was a mistake. Diesel was promoted as lower C02 than petrol engines, before the problems with particulates were well known. (1) This is of course changing now. (2) As noted in the second link, a factor is the "Volkswagen emissions scandal", AKA "Dieselgate" (3) 1) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715 2) https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/98747/diesel-ban-the-future-of-diesel-cars-in-the-uk-and-beyond https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/98747/d... 3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

lenkite 5y ago

Lots of nations have public health-care and millions of diesel motors.

Amezarak 5y ago

This is simply false. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56571 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56571 > Federal Subsidies. In CBO and JCT’s projections, net federal subsidies (that is, the cost of all the subsidies minus the taxes and penalties) in 2021 for insured people are $920 billion, or 4.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). The US federal government (that is, excluding state and county governments, which also spend money on this) spends 920 billion dollars a year on health insurance and care. This also excludes the VA system (~200 billion), which does cover dependents. So that's 1.1 trillion per year by the federal government alone. To take California for an example, you can add another 100 billion in state spending on Medi-Cal. It's also not uncommon for counties and cities to operate and run their own hospital systems.