5 ms·

It's true that most induction cooktops/ranges aren't great for woks, but in principle the induction surface doesn't have to be flat -- it can be a concave shape

It's true that most induction cooktops/ranges aren't great for woks, but in principle the induction surface doesn't have to be flat -- it can be a concave shape to match the wok. In fact these exist -- if you search for "induction wok burners" you can see some pictures. (I only recently became aware of this after watching this video of a chef who uses induction cooking in a small kitchen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooNzRrHA9VY) Perhaps in the future there will be cooktops that include a wok depression on the surface, similar to how some gas stoves today include a built-in wok ring.

ghostpepper 5y ago
Isn't the reason why woks need gas also that the gas creates a smooth heat gradient up the sides of the wok? How far away from the surface of the stove can an induction element heat a pan?
- mattmaroon 5y ago
  No it’s actually because you cook with the extremely hot jet of air that rises up over the sides! You can get that from induction since it doesn’t heat the air.
- rsfern 5y ago
  It sounds like the induction element cradles the wok. I don’t know about the thermal gradient thing (seems plausible) but in principle you could make a gradient in the field strength right? I would have thought that a bigger drawback would be that you can’t get even heat input while tossing the wok, though I’m not sure how essential that is
  - namibj 5y ago
    The coils are light enough that you could have them under spring-pressure and lubricated against the wok, so medium tossing height won't affect heat transfer. It's just a ~1mm thick planar coil out of "Litz wire", covered by a glass plate in a normal stove top. See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Induktionskochfeld_Spule.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Induktionskochfeld_S... for what's under the plate. The center silver thing is likely a thermostat/temperature sensor. The electronics may need to be a bit less ignorant to handle a flexible coil, but tracking the tank's resonance isn't even a difficult task; a Royer/Baxandall oscillator could probably be made to work.
- angry_octet 5y ago
  About 1mm. You're correct, but times change, and the carbon steel wok over a giant burner isn't very suitable for apartment cooking anyway. There are now works designed for use on induction (with aluminium conduction to achieve a heat gradient), and they work pretty well. Also much healthier for the occupants, not as hot in the kitchen and cheaper to operate. In countries with 240v/10A sockets a plug in electric wok is fine for home cooking. On 110v/15A it is still better than electric radiative cooking, but not as good as gas. https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003076266949.html https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003076266949.html
  - AmericanChopper 5y ago
    > There are now works designed for use on induction (with aluminium conduction to achieve a heat gradient), and they work pretty well. This perspective drives me crazy. OK, so induction cooktops are good for the environment. But flat bottom woks are not woks, and you can’t do wok cooking on an induction cooktop. The only people who think that you can, are people who completely lack an understanding of wok cooking techniques.
    - angry_octet 5y ago
      Why do you think Alibaba (click the link!) has a thousand induction cookers, including ones with a spherical wok shape? You're saying the Chinese don't know how to stir fry?!
      - AmericanChopper 5y ago
        Somebody sells it on Alibaba, so therefore it must be a high quality thing that works properly?... I can see where you might have gone wrong here.
        angry_octet 5y ago
        Okay okay, Americans know all about the whole world, I give up: You're right, it's impossible, stick to gas. Enjoy your self confident bubble.
omginternets 5y ago
So now we need two different kinds of cooking surface? I'm reminded of Dijkstra's story about trains.
- sjburt 5y ago
  I've never understood why we need 4 or 5 burner ranges, possibly with a slight size variations. I really only ever want one high power burner and one simmer burner. A dedicated wok burner sounds like a great addition. Another option would be to abandon the dedicated range entirely, and have a variety of countertop induction units that can be stored away when not in use. I don't think you could sell a home with a kitchen like that but it would be a big win for versatility, especially in small homes.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    I normally only need one or two burners. But a couple times per year I need all 4 and am wishing for more. I try to cook a variety of meals
    - kergonath 5y ago
      I almost always use 3: one for pasta/rice/vegetables, one for some meat, and one for some kind of sauce.
  - genocidicbunny 5y ago
    I think there's both a practical and aesthetic reason. The practical reason is that people have different sized pots and pans. I don't want to put my small sauce pan on a large burner that will waste the majority of its heating surface. Similarly, I need a large surface to heat a big pan. The aesthetic is that a lot of cooktops are combination stove/oven and thus have to be big enough for the oven bit. Once you already have that surface area, you might as well fill it up to make it seem more substantial. A stovetop with room for 4/5 burners will look like the manufacturer skimped out if it has only 2 burners.
  - SamBam 5y ago
tomchuk 5y ago
Kenji Lopez-Alt, of Seriouseats and “The Food Lab” fame, is coming out with his new book, “The Wok”, here is his travel rig: https://www.instagram.com/p/CaxbNwdvOTR/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CaxbNwdvOTR/. I’ve had a similar wok hob for years, and while fitting the wok to the curvature of the hob is essential, once you’ve got that figured out, it’s an absolute joy to use. Even, fast, powerful heat - nowhere near to a commercial gas hob, but neither is my gas range at home. My next home or kitchen reno will be induction, not even considering gas.
- shaklee3 5y ago
  his book came out a couple days ago. highly recommend it.
  - hallway_monitor 5y ago
    I made his smash burger today I think originally based on an HN recommendation. I also highly recommend it. https://youtu.be/Wwgn5k_TzKM https://youtu.be/Wwgn5k_TzKM
worik 5y ago
One day I want a kitchen in which I can have every cool appliance -c steam toasters, waffle irons, cheese toast makers, microwave ovens, air fryers, fat fryers, gas hobs, induction hobs.... I could play hockey in it too!
mattmaroon 5y ago
You’ll never really get wok hei with induction. It’s a mistake to think of a wok as just a differently shaped pan. Proper wok cooking is cooking is actually mechanically different. It’s mostly done with the hot air that rises up the side of the wok. Modernist cuisine has a great cutaway illustration on this. The food is constantly flipped into the air above the wok where it is heated by the extremely hot air. Of course very few homes in the western world have gas burners powerful enough for that anyway. I actually practice on a turkey fryer.
- danuker 5y ago
  > It’s mostly done with the hot air that rises up the side of the wok. I am not a cook, but I find it difficult to believe that the heat going by the sides of the pan is cooking the food, rather than the heat going through the pan and heating the air above the pan. This is because where I've seen someone cooking on a wok, the food barely goes past the edge of the pan. A sufficiently wok-shaped induction stove will induce the same heat as that going through the pan.
  - chillacy 5y ago
    Afaik there is a motion of tossing food in a wok where you throw the food past the rim and catch it again. The moment the food passes the rim, a small flame ignites from the high heat and food oils, creating complex flavors. If you go to Asian restaurants with a wok station or to Southeast Asia/south China you can see this in action.
  - mattmaroon 5y ago
    No offense but you’ve just not seen people doing it properly then. If you live in the western world that’s not surprising. I can’t find a high enough resolution pic on the internet of the modernist cuisine cutaway to actually read the text but here’s the image: https://images.app.goo.gl/cZWmqecLWTSdxSeX6 https://images.app.goo.gl/cZWmqecLWTSdxSeX6 Wok Hei translates to “breath of the wok” for a reason. The food is constantly in the air, which allows it to dry out. The food spends most of its time not even touching the wok so no, you can’t do it on induction. Here’s a good description from the Michelin guide: https://guide.michelin.com/en/article/dining-out/what-is-wok-hei https://guide.michelin.com/en/article/dining-out/what-is-wok...

ghostpepper 5y ago

Isn't the reason why woks need gas also that the gas creates a smooth heat gradient up the sides of the wok? How far away from the surface of the stove can an induction element heat a pan?

mattmaroon 5y ago
No it’s actually because you cook with the extremely hot jet of air that rises up over the sides! You can get that from induction since it doesn’t heat the air.
rsfern 5y ago
It sounds like the induction element cradles the wok. I don’t know about the thermal gradient thing (seems plausible) but in principle you could make a gradient in the field strength right? I would have thought that a bigger drawback would be that you can’t get even heat input while tossing the wok, though I’m not sure how essential that is
- namibj 5y ago
  The coils are light enough that you could have them under spring-pressure and lubricated against the wok, so medium tossing height won't affect heat transfer. It's just a ~1mm thick planar coil out of "Litz wire", covered by a glass plate in a normal stove top. See https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Induktionskochfeld_Spule.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Induktionskochfeld_S... for what's under the plate. The center silver thing is likely a thermostat/temperature sensor. The electronics may need to be a bit less ignorant to handle a flexible coil, but tracking the tank's resonance isn't even a difficult task; a Royer/Baxandall oscillator could probably be made to work.
angry_octet 5y ago
About 1mm. You're correct, but times change, and the carbon steel wok over a giant burner isn't very suitable for apartment cooking anyway. There are now works designed for use on induction (with aluminium conduction to achieve a heat gradient), and they work pretty well. Also much healthier for the occupants, not as hot in the kitchen and cheaper to operate. In countries with 240v/10A sockets a plug in electric wok is fine for home cooking. On 110v/15A it is still better than electric radiative cooking, but not as good as gas. https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003076266949.html https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003076266949.html
- AmericanChopper 5y ago
  > There are now works designed for use on induction (with aluminium conduction to achieve a heat gradient), and they work pretty well. This perspective drives me crazy. OK, so induction cooktops are good for the environment. But flat bottom woks are not woks, and you can’t do wok cooking on an induction cooktop. The only people who think that you can, are people who completely lack an understanding of wok cooking techniques.
  - angry_octet 5y ago
    Why do you think Alibaba (click the link!) has a thousand induction cookers, including ones with a spherical wok shape? You're saying the Chinese don't know how to stir fry?!
    - AmericanChopper 5y ago
      Somebody sells it on Alibaba, so therefore it must be a high quality thing that works properly?... I can see where you might have gone wrong here.
      - angry_octet 5y ago
        Okay okay, Americans know all about the whole world, I give up: You're right, it's impossible, stick to gas. Enjoy your self confident bubble.

omginternets 5y ago

So now we need two different kinds of cooking surface? I'm reminded of Dijkstra's story about trains.

sjburt 5y ago
I've never understood why we need 4 or 5 burner ranges, possibly with a slight size variations. I really only ever want one high power burner and one simmer burner. A dedicated wok burner sounds like a great addition. Another option would be to abandon the dedicated range entirely, and have a variety of countertop induction units that can be stored away when not in use. I don't think you could sell a home with a kitchen like that but it would be a big win for versatility, especially in small homes.
- bluGill 5y ago
  I normally only need one or two burners. But a couple times per year I need all 4 and am wishing for more. I try to cook a variety of meals
  - kergonath 5y ago
    I almost always use 3: one for pasta/rice/vegetables, one for some meat, and one for some kind of sauce.
- genocidicbunny 5y ago
  I think there's both a practical and aesthetic reason. The practical reason is that people have different sized pots and pans. I don't want to put my small sauce pan on a large burner that will waste the majority of its heating surface. Similarly, I need a large surface to heat a big pan. The aesthetic is that a lot of cooktops are combination stove/oven and thus have to be big enough for the oven bit. Once you already have that surface area, you might as well fill it up to make it seem more substantial. A stovetop with room for 4/5 burners will look like the manufacturer skimped out if it has only 2 burners.
- SamBam 5y ago

tomchuk 5y ago

Kenji Lopez-Alt, of Seriouseats and “The Food Lab” fame, is coming out with his new book, “The Wok”, here is his travel rig: https://www.instagram.com/p/CaxbNwdvOTR/ https://www.instagram.com/p/CaxbNwdvOTR/. I’ve had a similar wok hob for years, and while fitting the wok to the curvature of the hob is essential, once you’ve got that figured out, it’s an absolute joy to use. Even, fast, powerful heat - nowhere near to a commercial gas hob, but neither is my gas range at home. My next home or kitchen reno will be induction, not even considering gas.

shaklee3 5y ago
his book came out a couple days ago. highly recommend it.
- hallway_monitor 5y ago
  I made his smash burger today I think originally based on an HN recommendation. I also highly recommend it. https://youtu.be/Wwgn5k_TzKM https://youtu.be/Wwgn5k_TzKM

worik 5y ago

One day I want a kitchen in which I can have every cool appliance -c steam toasters, waffle irons, cheese toast makers, microwave ovens, air fryers, fat fryers, gas hobs, induction hobs.... I could play hockey in it too!

mattmaroon 5y ago

You’ll never really get wok hei with induction. It’s a mistake to think of a wok as just a differently shaped pan. Proper wok cooking is cooking is actually mechanically different. It’s mostly done with the hot air that rises up the side of the wok. Modernist cuisine has a great cutaway illustration on this. The food is constantly flipped into the air above the wok where it is heated by the extremely hot air. Of course very few homes in the western world have gas burners powerful enough for that anyway. I actually practice on a turkey fryer.

danuker 5y ago
> It’s mostly done with the hot air that rises up the side of the wok. I am not a cook, but I find it difficult to believe that the heat going by the sides of the pan is cooking the food, rather than the heat going through the pan and heating the air above the pan. This is because where I've seen someone cooking on a wok, the food barely goes past the edge of the pan. A sufficiently wok-shaped induction stove will induce the same heat as that going through the pan.
- chillacy 5y ago
  Afaik there is a motion of tossing food in a wok where you throw the food past the rim and catch it again. The moment the food passes the rim, a small flame ignites from the high heat and food oils, creating complex flavors. If you go to Asian restaurants with a wok station or to Southeast Asia/south China you can see this in action.
- mattmaroon 5y ago
  No offense but you’ve just not seen people doing it properly then. If you live in the western world that’s not surprising. I can’t find a high enough resolution pic on the internet of the modernist cuisine cutaway to actually read the text but here’s the image: https://images.app.goo.gl/cZWmqecLWTSdxSeX6 https://images.app.goo.gl/cZWmqecLWTSdxSeX6 Wok Hei translates to “breath of the wok” for a reason. The food is constantly in the air, which allows it to dry out. The food spends most of its time not even touching the wok so no, you can’t do it on induction. Here’s a good description from the Michelin guide: https://guide.michelin.com/en/article/dining-out/what-is-wok-hei https://guide.michelin.com/en/article/dining-out/what-is-wok...