5 ms·

'permissible' isn't quite the point ... if it makes the jury think you're lying, maybe it isn't the best strategy.

by brey 5y ago

prvc 5y ago
Certainly, but is there some other penalty for what might be construed as contemptuous and disreputable behavior?
- thehappypm 5y ago
  It might be perjury
Mordisquitos 5y ago
1. The jury should not base their decision on their belief whether either side is lying. 2. The defence is expected to lie, and if the prosecution cannot prove that every single one of the defence's arguments are lies, then the jury cannot convict beyond reasonable doubt. 3. The jury should assume that the prosecution is lying by default, and acquit if the prosecution does not convince them otherwise.
- duxup 5y ago
  The jury can decide that any given testimony is a lie and weight it accordingly.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    Defense theories are not testimony and, ideally, should not be considered in the evaluation of testimony. (In practice, humans don't consistently compartmentalize well enough to reliably avoid this, though.)
    - duxup 5y ago
      "defense theories" are going to have evidence associated with them. At that point my point applies.
- gpm 5y ago
  > 2. The defence is expected to lie The defence is expressly prohibited from lying. Lawyers have a so called duty of candor [1] outlining this. Defendants testify under oath to make this clear to them. Defence attorneys must disclose to the court if their client lies to the court (and they can't convince their client to voluntarily disclose it instead) [2]. That doesn't mean people are expected to take defendants at their word during trial, juries are allowed to decide they think that someone was lying, but they aren't expected to lie. [1] https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/duty-of-candor/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/duty-of-candor/ [2] https://www.eiglarshlaw.com/when-clients-liewhat-must-you-do.html https://www.eiglarshlaw.com/when-clients-liewhat-must-you-do...

'permissible' isn't quite the point ... if it makes the jury think you're lying, maybe it isn't the best strategy.

by brey 5y ago

'permissible' isn't quite the point ... if it makes the jury think you're lying, maybe it isn't the best strategy.

prvc 5y ago

Certainly, but is there some other penalty for what might be construed as contemptuous and disreputable behavior?

thehappypm 5y ago
It might be perjury

Mordisquitos 5y ago

1. The jury should not base their decision on their belief whether either side is lying. 2. The defence is expected to lie, and if the prosecution cannot prove that every single one of the defence's arguments are lies, then the jury cannot convict beyond reasonable doubt. 3. The jury should assume that the prosecution is lying by default, and acquit if the prosecution does not convince them otherwise.

duxup 5y ago
The jury can decide that any given testimony is a lie and weight it accordingly.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  Defense theories are not testimony and, ideally, should not be considered in the evaluation of testimony. (In practice, humans don't consistently compartmentalize well enough to reliably avoid this, though.)
  - duxup 5y ago
    "defense theories" are going to have evidence associated with them. At that point my point applies.
gpm 5y ago
> 2. The defence is expected to lie The defence is expressly prohibited from lying. Lawyers have a so called duty of candor [1] outlining this. Defendants testify under oath to make this clear to them. Defence attorneys must disclose to the court if their client lies to the court (and they can't convince their client to voluntarily disclose it instead) [2]. That doesn't mean people are expected to take defendants at their word during trial, juries are allowed to decide they think that someone was lying, but they aren't expected to lie. [1] https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/duty-of-candor/ https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/duty-of-candor/ [2] https://www.eiglarshlaw.com/when-clients-liewhat-must-you-do.html https://www.eiglarshlaw.com/when-clients-liewhat-must-you-do...