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Russia is isolating the Russians. Roskomnadzor is throttling and blocking the Russian people's access to the wider internet, not Western providers.

by vernie 5y ago

jolmg 5y ago
> not Western providers An example: > Namecheap: Russia Service Termination https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30504812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30504812 EDIT: Better example: > Internet backbone provider shuts off service in Russia https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/5/22962822/internet-backbone https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/5/22962822/internet-backbone...
- sndean 5y ago
  I'm not sure Namecheap should be used as an example of a Western provider. While I think they're technically based in the US, according to their CEO they have many employees in one of the Ukrainian cities currently being bombed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30506813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30506813
  - jolmg 5y ago
    Right. I put a better example.
- vernie 5y ago
  I think the impact of this action compared to state internet censorship is insignificant.
  - jolmg 5y ago
    Right. I put a better example.
- ptero 5y ago
  OK, Western providers do this, too. But I think the much bigger problem is that all independent media, everything except reliably pro-Kremlin sources, is being very aggressively shut down from the inside. And that includes access to outside channels and programs. While I generally agree that the West should not be shutting down the information pipes, in this environment the additional harm of such actions may be minimal.
vbezhenar 5y ago
As long as The Internet is available to Russians, people will find a way around Roskomnadzor blocks. All it takes is a single 100Mb VPS to provide VPN connection for 10-20 people. It's decentralized and can't be blocked, at least without making it criminal offense which did not happen yet. But West, blocking Visa essentially made it impossible for average Russian IT guy to pay for VPS. And if The Internet would be cut off, the game is over, the entire country will be brain washed by Russian propaganda exclusively. I guess, it should be possible to use UnionPay to buy VPS in Turkey or something like that. I, personally, don't believe that western propaganda is one bit better that Russian propaganda. It's the same half-truths, half-lies, just picked differently. But what I do believe is that every person must have access to all points of view, without any exclusions. And must be encouraged to learn all points of view for important subjects.
- salixrosa 5y ago
  I strongly disagree with this "both sides are the same" BS. One side has made it illegal to refer to Russia's invasion of Ukraine as a war, the other has not. Yes, it's virtually impossible to reports news without some bias affecting that presentation. But it's a disservice to the world to claim that those are even vaguely the same thing.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- maxmalysh 5y ago
  > As long as The Internet is available to Russians, people will find a way around Roskomnadzor blocks. All it takes is a single 100Mb VPS to provide VPN connection for 10-20 people. The things is, there is no way to buy a $5 VPS/VPN now in Russia "thanks" to Visa / Mastercard actions.
tablespoon 5y ago
> Russia is isolating the Russians. Roskomnadzor is throttling and blocking the Russian people's access to the wider internet, not Western providers. Let's not help them do their job, then, even a little bit. Some of the recent sanctions/pullouts are probably counterproductive, e.g.: 1. Visa/Mastercard cutting off service. - It seems like a big result of this has been to make it more difficult for Russians to flee the country. If you want to harm the Russian government, one way to do that is through a brain drain, so make that easy. 2. The Cogent disconnection. - If an authoritarian government wants to disconnect, then the correct response is to try to do the opposite. 3. etc. - e.g. the Namecheap thing. Maybe they should have enacted a content policy rather than just cutting off the whole country. Though their response seems forgivably human since they have so many people in Ukraine. IMHO, cutoffs should only be done strategically or for reasonable tactical reasons (e.g. cybersecurity threats). In some cases if you want to Russia's actions, in some cases the best action is to leave, but in other's it's to stay (or carefully change policy).
- jolmg 5y ago
  > If you want to harm the Russian government, one way to do that is through a brain drain, so make that easy. I'm doubtful of that. I think an authoritarian government might benefit from a brain drain. Even if a brain drain were desirable, there's no way the effectiveness of that outweighs the harm to the economy that the cutoff by Visa/Mastercard would have.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > Even if a brain drain were desirable, there's no way the effectiveness of that outweighs the harm to the economy that the cutoff by Visa/Mastercard would have. My understanding is that the cutoff only affects 1) foreign cards in Russia and 2) Russian cards outside of Russia, because domestic Russian credit card transactions are cleared with a different (domestic) system. So it mainly affects tourists and expats, and probably has minimal impact on the domestic economy.
    - jolmg 5y ago

Russia is isolating the Russians. Roskomnadzor is throttling and blocking the Russian people's access to the wider internet, not Western providers.

by vernie 5y ago

Russia is isolating the Russians. Roskomnadzor is throttling and blocking the Russian people's access to the wider internet, not Western providers.

jolmg 5y ago

> not Western providers An example: > Namecheap: Russia Service Termination https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30504812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30504812 EDIT: Better example: > Internet backbone provider shuts off service in Russia https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/5/22962822/internet-backbone https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/5/22962822/internet-backbone...

sndean 5y ago
I'm not sure Namecheap should be used as an example of a Western provider. While I think they're technically based in the US, according to their CEO they have many employees in one of the Ukrainian cities currently being bombed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30506813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30506813
- jolmg 5y ago
  Right. I put a better example.
vernie 5y ago
I think the impact of this action compared to state internet censorship is insignificant.
- jolmg 5y ago
  Right. I put a better example.
ptero 5y ago
OK, Western providers do this, too. But I think the much bigger problem is that all independent media, everything except reliably pro-Kremlin sources, is being very aggressively shut down from the inside. And that includes access to outside channels and programs. While I generally agree that the West should not be shutting down the information pipes, in this environment the additional harm of such actions may be minimal.

vbezhenar 5y ago

As long as The Internet is available to Russians, people will find a way around Roskomnadzor blocks. All it takes is a single 100Mb VPS to provide VPN connection for 10-20 people. It's decentralized and can't be blocked, at least without making it criminal offense which did not happen yet. But West, blocking Visa essentially made it impossible for average Russian IT guy to pay for VPS. And if The Internet would be cut off, the game is over, the entire country will be brain washed by Russian propaganda exclusively. I guess, it should be possible to use UnionPay to buy VPS in Turkey or something like that. I, personally, don't believe that western propaganda is one bit better that Russian propaganda. It's the same half-truths, half-lies, just picked differently. But what I do believe is that every person must have access to all points of view, without any exclusions. And must be encouraged to learn all points of view for important subjects.

salixrosa 5y ago
I strongly disagree with this "both sides are the same" BS. One side has made it illegal to refer to Russia's invasion of Ukraine as a war, the other has not. Yes, it's virtually impossible to reports news without some bias affecting that presentation. But it's a disservice to the world to claim that those are even vaguely the same thing.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
maxmalysh 5y ago
> As long as The Internet is available to Russians, people will find a way around Roskomnadzor blocks. All it takes is a single 100Mb VPS to provide VPN connection for 10-20 people. The things is, there is no way to buy a $5 VPS/VPN now in Russia "thanks" to Visa / Mastercard actions.

tablespoon 5y ago

> Russia is isolating the Russians. Roskomnadzor is throttling and blocking the Russian people's access to the wider internet, not Western providers. Let's not help them do their job, then, even a little bit. Some of the recent sanctions/pullouts are probably counterproductive, e.g.: 1. Visa/Mastercard cutting off service. - It seems like a big result of this has been to make it more difficult for Russians to flee the country. If you want to harm the Russian government, one way to do that is through a brain drain, so make that easy. 2. The Cogent disconnection. - If an authoritarian government wants to disconnect, then the correct response is to try to do the opposite. 3. etc. - e.g. the Namecheap thing. Maybe they should have enacted a content policy rather than just cutting off the whole country. Though their response seems forgivably human since they have so many people in Ukraine. IMHO, cutoffs should only be done strategically or for reasonable tactical reasons (e.g. cybersecurity threats). In some cases if you want to Russia's actions, in some cases the best action is to leave, but in other's it's to stay (or carefully change policy).

jolmg 5y ago
> If you want to harm the Russian government, one way to do that is through a brain drain, so make that easy. I'm doubtful of that. I think an authoritarian government might benefit from a brain drain. Even if a brain drain were desirable, there's no way the effectiveness of that outweighs the harm to the economy that the cutoff by Visa/Mastercard would have.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Even if a brain drain were desirable, there's no way the effectiveness of that outweighs the harm to the economy that the cutoff by Visa/Mastercard would have. My understanding is that the cutoff only affects 1) foreign cards in Russia and 2) Russian cards outside of Russia, because domestic Russian credit card transactions are cleared with a different (domestic) system. So it mainly affects tourists and expats, and probably has minimal impact on the domestic economy.
  - jolmg 5y ago