8 ms·

Last time I sent money to someone internationally Etherium really was pretty convenient. The Coinbase fees were a little high but otherwise it was near instanta

Last time I sent money to someone internationally Etherium really was pretty convenient. The Coinbase fees were a little high but otherwise it was near instantaneous, I already had some anyway, and I didn't have to deal with any real hassle.

paxys 5y ago
The transfer part is straightforward, but the hassle with crypto is usually trying to convert it to/from the local currency at either end.
- netsharc 5y ago
  Crypto is a planet-destroying ponzi-scheme, but in a collapsed economy like Russia, I wonder if everyone can just have virtual wallets where you can buy goods by sending the seller some "coins". Which is basically the WeChat payment system, or how the Brazilian Real got established: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/04/130329523/how-fake-money-saved-brazil https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/04/130329523/how-... We already just exchange "coins" electronically, but with the Visa or MasterCard network getting involved...
  - everfree 5y ago
    The phrase "ponzi scheme" has been thrown around liberally in regards to cryptocurrency, especially on this forum, but I've never heard a convincing argument that it actually fits the definition.
    - izzydata 5y ago
      It's weird because it seems like you can point to various aspects of crypto and maybe identify them as being a pyramid scheme, but I don't feel like that definition holds up as it gets sufficiently large and self sustaining. Otherwise you could point to a number of other very large money machines like the stock market or even money itself and say it is also a pyramid scheme. Maybe it is though. Perhaps the entire economy is a pyramid scheme that is dependent on an infinitely growing population. As soon as we hit a population limit on the planet there will be no bigger fool to sell to in the future and the economy becomes stagnant. As for the literal definition of ponzi scheme I don't think it holds up because everyone is fully aware, or should be of what it is they are buying and where the money is coming from if they want to sell.
      - EGreg 5y ago
        The same can be said of any startups. They are pyramid schemes until they finally offer utility to customers. What is sometimes up for debate is whether something is serious utility, such as “owning” a picture anyone can look at, or a digital experience in the metaverse with artificial scarcity. But then again, under the capitalist system, we need to introduce scarcity even where it’s not easy to do so, in order to recoup initial venture capital. So for example, I remember stories about SWAT teams raising grandmas for downloading movies illegally, or about manufacturing companies all forced to cripple their software with DRM, or the blowup at the W3C, or crackz of popular software that kiddies handed out until all these companies like Adobe went full SAAS. It’s an antipattern that is the direct result of any capitalist system. By contrast, open source, creative commons etc. doesn’t have that issue.
    - exit 5y ago
      Lyn Alden addresses this characterisation: https://www.lynalden.com/bitcoin-ponzi-scheme/ https://www.lynalden.com/bitcoin-ponzi-scheme/ "Bitcoin doesn’t really meet this broader definition of a Ponzi scheme any more than the gold market, the global fiat banking system, or less liquid markets like fine art, fine wine, collectable cars, or beachfront property. In other words, if your definition of something is so broad that it includes every non-cashflow store of value, you need a better definition."
      - XorNot 5y ago
        You know they'd have a point if they were talking about Bitcoin and gold, but they're not - because if you don't get understand what underpins the value of fiat, or pretend it's the same - then you have an agenda to push. Fiat has value because it's legally recognized by governments that issue it: it extinguishes tax and debt obligations in those jurisdictions. This makes it markedly different to any other of the commodity items listed: my government will only ever tax me fiat currency, which is sufficient to extinguish those taxes and fulfill debts. I can't be ordered to pay them in gold, or bitcoin.
        stat 5y ago
        Imagine if every merchant came up with their own currency and forced you to pay them in it only. Wouldn't a global currency be a lot more efficient & frictionless?
  - olegious 5y ago
    As soon as I hear something like “planet destroying” within the crypto context, I stop reading because that tells me the person knows nothing about the current state of crypto.
    - ihumanable 5y ago
      I'm curious about this, I try to stay up on what's going on in the crypto world and it's my understanding that the vast majority of crypto blockchains are still using proof-of-work, which is what I imagine "planet destroying" is in reference to. Per wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake The biggest proof-of-stake blockchains by market capitalization in 2021 were Cardano, Avalanche, Polkadot and Solana. Other prominent PoS platforms include Tron, EOS, Algorand, and Tezos. There have been repeated proposals for Ethereum to switch from a PoW to PoS mechanism. In April 2021, the Ethereum Foundation announced that it planned to switch to a PoS system by the end of 2021. This has since been pushed back to the second quarter of 2022. --- So if most of crypto transactions are conducted on proof-of-work chains, which do require burning large amounts of electricity, why would this make you think someone doesn't know about the current state of crypto. What exactly about the current state of crypto is incompatible with this critique?
      - CryptoPunk 5y ago
        >>What exactly about the current state of crypto is incompatible with this critique? Ethereum is by far the most widely used cryptocurrency network, and while it consumes a lot of energy relative to the number of transactions in processes, and a lot of energy in absolute terms, it consumes on the order of a thousandths (0.1%) of the world's energy output. It will have switched to Proof of Stake long before it grows large enough for it to account for a materially significant portion of global energy consumption. So the rhetoric used above, which makes the generalization that "Crypto is a planet-destroying ponzi-scheme", is entirely hyperbolic with respect to the environmental criticism (and a blatant mischaracterization with respect to the ponzi-scheme allegation).
        5y ago
izzydata 5y ago
If your only goal is to send digital value across the planet why would anyone use Ethereum or Bitcoin? There are a ton of alternatives that cost fractions of a penny in transaction fees.
- bjornsteffanson 5y ago
  What services are the best for transferring large sums of money cheaply, safely, and quickly? In my experience, you can only choose one. I would prefer to chose two: cheaply and safely. I am not as worried about time. Recommendations?
  - izzydata 5y ago
    Algorand, Avalanche, Solana, Cardano and Terra are all cheap and safe, but like that other guy said. I have no idea what kinds of crypto are listed on foreign exchanges. I'd imagine anything sufficiently popular though.
    - hanniabu 5y ago
      I love how you list the lesser decentralized and therefore less secure options.
  - listenallyall 5y ago
    BCH is essentially the same protocol as Bitcoin (BTC), but possibly safer (in that your transaction is never relegated to a 2nd-layer protocol like Lightning, with private nodes) and much cheaper, so if you are familiar with Bitcoin, you don't have to learn a new system or any funny quirks. And it's pretty universally accepted at every exchange and wallet. Not saying it is better than the other options presented (and definitely not recommending it as an investment) but BCH does work quite well for transacting.
  - __d 5y ago
    I use TransferWise (aka Wise now)

paxys 5y ago

The transfer part is straightforward, but the hassle with crypto is usually trying to convert it to/from the local currency at either end.

netsharc 5y ago
Crypto is a planet-destroying ponzi-scheme, but in a collapsed economy like Russia, I wonder if everyone can just have virtual wallets where you can buy goods by sending the seller some "coins". Which is basically the WeChat payment system, or how the Brazilian Real got established: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/04/130329523/how-fake-money-saved-brazil https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2010/10/04/130329523/how-... We already just exchange "coins" electronically, but with the Visa or MasterCard network getting involved...
- everfree 5y ago
  The phrase "ponzi scheme" has been thrown around liberally in regards to cryptocurrency, especially on this forum, but I've never heard a convincing argument that it actually fits the definition.
  - izzydata 5y ago
    It's weird because it seems like you can point to various aspects of crypto and maybe identify them as being a pyramid scheme, but I don't feel like that definition holds up as it gets sufficiently large and self sustaining. Otherwise you could point to a number of other very large money machines like the stock market or even money itself and say it is also a pyramid scheme. Maybe it is though. Perhaps the entire economy is a pyramid scheme that is dependent on an infinitely growing population. As soon as we hit a population limit on the planet there will be no bigger fool to sell to in the future and the economy becomes stagnant. As for the literal definition of ponzi scheme I don't think it holds up because everyone is fully aware, or should be of what it is they are buying and where the money is coming from if they want to sell.
    - EGreg 5y ago
      The same can be said of any startups. They are pyramid schemes until they finally offer utility to customers. What is sometimes up for debate is whether something is serious utility, such as “owning” a picture anyone can look at, or a digital experience in the metaverse with artificial scarcity. But then again, under the capitalist system, we need to introduce scarcity even where it’s not easy to do so, in order to recoup initial venture capital. So for example, I remember stories about SWAT teams raising grandmas for downloading movies illegally, or about manufacturing companies all forced to cripple their software with DRM, or the blowup at the W3C, or crackz of popular software that kiddies handed out until all these companies like Adobe went full SAAS. It’s an antipattern that is the direct result of any capitalist system. By contrast, open source, creative commons etc. doesn’t have that issue.
  - exit 5y ago
    Lyn Alden addresses this characterisation: https://www.lynalden.com/bitcoin-ponzi-scheme/ https://www.lynalden.com/bitcoin-ponzi-scheme/ "Bitcoin doesn’t really meet this broader definition of a Ponzi scheme any more than the gold market, the global fiat banking system, or less liquid markets like fine art, fine wine, collectable cars, or beachfront property. In other words, if your definition of something is so broad that it includes every non-cashflow store of value, you need a better definition."
    - XorNot 5y ago
      You know they'd have a point if they were talking about Bitcoin and gold, but they're not - because if you don't get understand what underpins the value of fiat, or pretend it's the same - then you have an agenda to push. Fiat has value because it's legally recognized by governments that issue it: it extinguishes tax and debt obligations in those jurisdictions. This makes it markedly different to any other of the commodity items listed: my government will only ever tax me fiat currency, which is sufficient to extinguish those taxes and fulfill debts. I can't be ordered to pay them in gold, or bitcoin.
      - stat 5y ago
        Imagine if every merchant came up with their own currency and forced you to pay them in it only. Wouldn't a global currency be a lot more efficient & frictionless?
- olegious 5y ago
  As soon as I hear something like “planet destroying” within the crypto context, I stop reading because that tells me the person knows nothing about the current state of crypto.
  - ihumanable 5y ago
    I'm curious about this, I try to stay up on what's going on in the crypto world and it's my understanding that the vast majority of crypto blockchains are still using proof-of-work, which is what I imagine "planet destroying" is in reference to. Per wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake The biggest proof-of-stake blockchains by market capitalization in 2021 were Cardano, Avalanche, Polkadot and Solana. Other prominent PoS platforms include Tron, EOS, Algorand, and Tezos. There have been repeated proposals for Ethereum to switch from a PoW to PoS mechanism. In April 2021, the Ethereum Foundation announced that it planned to switch to a PoS system by the end of 2021. This has since been pushed back to the second quarter of 2022. --- So if most of crypto transactions are conducted on proof-of-work chains, which do require burning large amounts of electricity, why would this make you think someone doesn't know about the current state of crypto. What exactly about the current state of crypto is incompatible with this critique?
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      >>What exactly about the current state of crypto is incompatible with this critique? Ethereum is by far the most widely used cryptocurrency network, and while it consumes a lot of energy relative to the number of transactions in processes, and a lot of energy in absolute terms, it consumes on the order of a thousandths (0.1%) of the world's energy output. It will have switched to Proof of Stake long before it grows large enough for it to account for a materially significant portion of global energy consumption. So the rhetoric used above, which makes the generalization that "Crypto is a planet-destroying ponzi-scheme", is entirely hyperbolic with respect to the environmental criticism (and a blatant mischaracterization with respect to the ponzi-scheme allegation).
      - 5y ago

izzydata 5y ago

If your only goal is to send digital value across the planet why would anyone use Ethereum or Bitcoin? There are a ton of alternatives that cost fractions of a penny in transaction fees.

bjornsteffanson 5y ago
What services are the best for transferring large sums of money cheaply, safely, and quickly? In my experience, you can only choose one. I would prefer to chose two: cheaply and safely. I am not as worried about time. Recommendations?
- izzydata 5y ago
  Algorand, Avalanche, Solana, Cardano and Terra are all cheap and safe, but like that other guy said. I have no idea what kinds of crypto are listed on foreign exchanges. I'd imagine anything sufficiently popular though.
  - hanniabu 5y ago
    I love how you list the lesser decentralized and therefore less secure options.
- listenallyall 5y ago
  BCH is essentially the same protocol as Bitcoin (BTC), but possibly safer (in that your transaction is never relegated to a 2nd-layer protocol like Lightning, with private nodes) and much cheaper, so if you are familiar with Bitcoin, you don't have to learn a new system or any funny quirks. And it's pretty universally accepted at every exchange and wallet. Not saying it is better than the other options presented (and definitely not recommending it as an investment) but BCH does work quite well for transacting.
- __d 5y ago
  I use TransferWise (aka Wise now)