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> Russia said don't join Nato or we'll destroy you, Ukraine. And then Russia attacks Ukraine anyway They wanted some guarantee that Ukraine would remain a neut

> Russia said don't join Nato or we'll destroy you, Ukraine. And then Russia attacks Ukraine anyway They wanted some guarantee that Ukraine would remain a neutral country, and the response they got was that Ukraine was going to join NATO. Even more, NATO's secretary general said not only Ukraine can join NATO, but also, NATO's presence in eastern Europe was to be strengthened. If that was meant to avoid a military conflict, I think they were very wrong.

yonaguska 5y ago
Yep, I don't want to sound like a Putin apologist, but everything seems to point to Western escalation in this respect.
- nullifidian 5y ago
  Independent countries joining defensive pacts is their internal business. Putin wants what he thinks is Russia's god ordained sphere of influence(imperialism), and what's more considers Ukraine as Russia's to rule(imperialism). Everything that was said, and different things were said to different audiences, were just distractions/post-decision excuses. It has nothing to do with defense, and everything to do with imperialism, and generations of indoctrination in it. Baltic states(already in NATO) are as close to Moscow as Harkiv. And defense wise Russia will be much weaker in the decades to come with an isolated economy. Putin wants a poor desperate and isolated North Korea like country, he doesn't want a prosperous Russia -- prosperity is not too compatible with authoritarianism.
  - tscherno 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
    - nullifidian 5y ago
      People like to post this, but Dugin is mostly irrelevant in Russia, and I doubt he had any influence on Putin's decision making. Putin's imperialism is of his own biographical origins.
- Ambix 5y ago
  Exactly. And there still many people shocked by NATO'1999 bombarding of Serbia.
drran 5y ago
RF is aggressor in Ukraine since 2014, but RF cannot win over Ukraine, thus RF has constant fear of losing the war with Ukraine, so they are so sensitive to any military or political help to Ukraine. Yes, RF wants for their target to be alone, while Ukraine don't want to be at 1:1 war with a much larger opponent.

yonaguska 5y ago

Yep, I don't want to sound like a Putin apologist, but everything seems to point to Western escalation in this respect.

nullifidian 5y ago
Independent countries joining defensive pacts is their internal business. Putin wants what he thinks is Russia's god ordained sphere of influence(imperialism), and what's more considers Ukraine as Russia's to rule(imperialism). Everything that was said, and different things were said to different audiences, were just distractions/post-decision excuses. It has nothing to do with defense, and everything to do with imperialism, and generations of indoctrination in it. Baltic states(already in NATO) are as close to Moscow as Harkiv. And defense wise Russia will be much weaker in the decades to come with an isolated economy. Putin wants a poor desperate and isolated North Korea like country, he doesn't want a prosperous Russia -- prosperity is not too compatible with authoritarianism.
- tscherno 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
  - nullifidian 5y ago
    People like to post this, but Dugin is mostly irrelevant in Russia, and I doubt he had any influence on Putin's decision making. Putin's imperialism is of his own biographical origins.
Ambix 5y ago
Exactly. And there still many people shocked by NATO'1999 bombarding of Serbia.

drran 5y ago

RF is aggressor in Ukraine since 2014, but RF cannot win over Ukraine, thus RF has constant fear of losing the war with Ukraine, so they are so sensitive to any military or political help to Ukraine. Yes, RF wants for their target to be alone, while Ukraine don't want to be at 1:1 war with a much larger opponent.