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What's the "against Ukraine" viewpoint then? That what's Russia is saying is true and the Jewish prime minister is a Nazi? Do keep in mind that I'm not exagger

by y4mi 5y ago

What's the "against Ukraine" viewpoint then? That what's Russia is saying is true and the Jewish prime minister is a Nazi? Do keep in mind that I'm not exaggerating, that's literally what they did.

cheschire 5y ago
As an aside, an interesting concept of the book 1984 was that people could be prevented from thinking against the state by removing the concepts themselves from the language. One could conceivably be unable to develop a rational full perspective on events of any kind if they are never made aware of a subset of information.
- hhmc 5y ago
  > One could conceivably be unable to develop a rational full perspective on events of any kind if they are never made aware of a subset of information. This is true but very uninteresting (of course if you're denied crucial information you can't build a holistic view). What's more interesting is: is it actually the case that information is being systemically and totally suppressed, for which there seems to be little evidence. It also seems like you're trying to use this trivial truth to stealthily support an anti-ukraine position.
  - cheschire 5y ago
    You are inferring that which I am not implying. I clearly said this was aside the parent and grandparent posts, as it was not in line with the original intent or content. You're using HN guideline wording ("uninteresting") seemingly in preparation to flag my comment if I step outside of your box. And your final sentence can have a chilling effect on intellectual conversation. If this is a "trivial truth" then why do so many people fail to grasp the connections between the work of fiction and the modern realities? Your world view perhaps takes it as a given, but people should be afforded the opportunity to reach realization well after the point that you yourself achieved it. I was pointing it out because not everyone is aware that this is possible, and it hopefully creates an interesting perspective for someone on an otherwise flamebait comment. It's past the point of usefulness now, however, as the other post has been rightfully flagged. edit: To go a bit further, my original comment does feel a bit off-topic on reflection. That is, of course, why these sorts of posts should simply be flagged and just move on. I should've avoided trying to dredge up some interesting conversation. Additionally, I feel like your post would've been more interesting and encouraging of conversation had you simply stuck with the question "what evidence is there that this is occurring NOW though?" I personally have no evidence this is happening, but the conversation would at that point be open to a third party contributing evidence if there were any.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
  Your comment is very vague; I know the views of both sides. When Putin decided to start the war, the arguments of anti-Ukrainians automatically lost their weight. You cannot fight using the argument of the Alley of Angels[0] if you kill civilians. Putin has already lost that part of his war. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_of_Angels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_of_Angels
s1artibartfast 5y ago
I think most people (mistakenly) would consider me "against Ukraine". I am American and against US military involvement in the conflict. I am for humanitarian support for Ukraine and against military aid. I think the war is awful, and wish it weren't happening, but think the sooner it is over, the better for everyone involved. I think that Russia has real concerns about eastward expansion of NATO, and NATO should stop expanding in the region.

by y4mi 5y ago

What's the "against Ukraine" viewpoint then? That what's Russia is saying is true and the Jewish prime minister is a Nazi? Do keep in mind that I'm not exaggerating, that's literally what they did.

cheschire 5y ago

As an aside, an interesting concept of the book 1984 was that people could be prevented from thinking against the state by removing the concepts themselves from the language. One could conceivably be unable to develop a rational full perspective on events of any kind if they are never made aware of a subset of information.

hhmc 5y ago
> One could conceivably be unable to develop a rational full perspective on events of any kind if they are never made aware of a subset of information. This is true but very uninteresting (of course if you're denied crucial information you can't build a holistic view). What's more interesting is: is it actually the case that information is being systemically and totally suppressed, for which there seems to be little evidence. It also seems like you're trying to use this trivial truth to stealthily support an anti-ukraine position.
- cheschire 5y ago
  You are inferring that which I am not implying. I clearly said this was aside the parent and grandparent posts, as it was not in line with the original intent or content. You're using HN guideline wording ("uninteresting") seemingly in preparation to flag my comment if I step outside of your box. And your final sentence can have a chilling effect on intellectual conversation. If this is a "trivial truth" then why do so many people fail to grasp the connections between the work of fiction and the modern realities? Your world view perhaps takes it as a given, but people should be afforded the opportunity to reach realization well after the point that you yourself achieved it. I was pointing it out because not everyone is aware that this is possible, and it hopefully creates an interesting perspective for someone on an otherwise flamebait comment. It's past the point of usefulness now, however, as the other post has been rightfully flagged. edit: To go a bit further, my original comment does feel a bit off-topic on reflection. That is, of course, why these sorts of posts should simply be flagged and just move on. I should've avoided trying to dredge up some interesting conversation. Additionally, I feel like your post would've been more interesting and encouraging of conversation had you simply stuck with the question "what evidence is there that this is occurring NOW though?" I personally have no evidence this is happening, but the conversation would at that point be open to a third party contributing evidence if there were any.
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
Your comment is very vague; I know the views of both sides. When Putin decided to start the war, the arguments of anti-Ukrainians automatically lost their weight. You cannot fight using the argument of the Alley of Angels[0] if you kill civilians. Putin has already lost that part of his war. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_of_Angels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alley_of_Angels

s1artibartfast 5y ago

I think most people (mistakenly) would consider me "against Ukraine". I am American and against US military involvement in the conflict. I am for humanitarian support for Ukraine and against military aid. I think the war is awful, and wish it weren't happening, but think the sooner it is over, the better for everyone involved. I think that Russia has real concerns about eastward expansion of NATO, and NATO should stop expanding in the region.