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Before OBD2, you were at odds with diagnostic software to troubleshoot vehicular problems. Mechanics, third parties, and owners could not use the onboard comput

Before OBD2, you were at odds with diagnostic software to troubleshoot vehicular problems. Mechanics, third parties, and owners could not use the onboard computers to resolve issues with the car, or emissions. OBD2 as is required by the NHTSA, enables anyone with a scanner to view the diagnostic information, as well as the state of variables on a running engine. Say what you will about electric cars, but any vehicle with a standard diagnostic port is easily able to be worked on. With modern telematics, and datapoints that the manufacturers have been able to record, giving the ability to access thay information to third party repair and the customers, you can have more choice, and get this, ability to have repairs done. Dealers are not anywhere near always the best place to get a car repaired. In 10 years time, when the new cars age, they will need repair and maintenance that the dealer may overcharge for. If I had to service both of ny cars at the dealership, oil changes would cost me 3 times as much as I can do myself, brakes cost 2 times as much as a local shop can perform. Dealers don't provide a greater service to a vehicle than a standard mechanic shop can provide other than verified manufacturer parts at markup.

nickff 5y ago
>"OBD2 as is required by the NHTSA, enables anyone with a scanner to view the diagnostic information, as well as the state of variables on a running engine. Say what you will about electric cars, but any vehicle with a standard diagnostic port is easily able to be worked on." ODB2 reveals only some trouble codes; manufacturer-specific tools will tell you much more about what's going on. >"With modern telematics, and datapoints that the manufacturers have been able to record, giving the ability to access thay information to third party repair and the customers, you can have more choice, and get this, ability to have repairs done." I don't understand what you mean by this, and I've spent many years working in automotive diagnostics. >"Dealers are not anywhere near always the best place to get a car repaired. In 10 years time, when the new cars age, they will need repair and maintenance that the dealer may overcharge for. If I had to service both of ny cars at the dealership, oil changes would cost me 3 times as much as I can do myself, brakes cost 2 times as much as a local shop can perform. Dealers don't provide a greater service to a vehicle than a standard mechanic shop can provide other than verified manufacturer parts at markup. " I agree that dealers aren't always best, but they're generally quite good when the vehicle is less than about 10 years old. They have all the best tools, training, and experience with those vehicles. Independent mechanics (especially those who focus on a few brands) are generally better with older vehicles.
- porknubbins 5y ago
  I do more or less all the work on my vehicles. Its much cheaper to buy parts online and watch youtube. But when my 5 year old Hyundai started randomly braking and accelerating and OBD only said Can bus issue I decided that I was willing to pay up for a dealer to diagnose and guarantee the fix. It was a fuel pump computer so it would’ve been cheap to fix but not worth it to waste my time troubleshooting.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  I guess the rational solution is for regulators to force the release of those manufacture specific tools.
  - nickff 5y ago
    Some of the manufacturers sell the codes (or the tools), but they're expensive, and not really worth it unless you specialize in those vehicles.
    - CogitoCogito 5y ago
      I guess I wasn’t clear in my last post. I meant that the rational thing would be to force the free release of the manufacture specific tools and information.
      - nickff 5y ago
        The manufacturers charge the dealers for those tools (a fact that some dealers resent); it would be quite something for them to make all that stuff free. I think the manufacturers would stop providing the tools and the codes to anyone, if there's no revenue to be had.
        raxxorrax 5y ago
        Which artificially increases the price of repairs. The reason they need strong and clear regulation in the first place.
kylecordes 5y ago
It is frustrating that the OBD2 dataflow, which covers far more than emissions-related features, is only required in conjunction with emissions and therefore does not apply to electric vehicles. A more thoughtful legislature would have required a diagnostic port for all vehicles. Required that it emit codes covering all computerized aspects of the car. Required that all codes be emitted on the standard port, required that all manufacturers publish documentation for the meaning of the codes. (Of course it's probably not a matter of thoughtfulness, but rather a negotiation between many stakeholders, including lobby groups with substantial budgets.)
- neuralRiot 5y ago
  There’s something like that (j2534). It was originally intended for reprogramming of emmission-related ECUs but since the hardware and software APIs where widely available many started using the standard for complete vehicle diagnostic. Today you can diagnostic and program almost all vehicle brands (for a fee) with just one VCI and without specialized computers since most run in-browser.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Pretty much every car model is different though once you get out of emissions land. Some are even different across an individual model year. Some manufacturers have a bad habit of implementing these commands under the hood as poke and peek memory inside the microcontrollers so you almost need a set of linker maps to make sense of everything.

nickff 5y ago

>"OBD2 as is required by the NHTSA, enables anyone with a scanner to view the diagnostic information, as well as the state of variables on a running engine. Say what you will about electric cars, but any vehicle with a standard diagnostic port is easily able to be worked on." ODB2 reveals only some trouble codes; manufacturer-specific tools will tell you much more about what's going on. >"With modern telematics, and datapoints that the manufacturers have been able to record, giving the ability to access thay information to third party repair and the customers, you can have more choice, and get this, ability to have repairs done." I don't understand what you mean by this, and I've spent many years working in automotive diagnostics. >"Dealers are not anywhere near always the best place to get a car repaired. In 10 years time, when the new cars age, they will need repair and maintenance that the dealer may overcharge for. If I had to service both of ny cars at the dealership, oil changes would cost me 3 times as much as I can do myself, brakes cost 2 times as much as a local shop can perform. Dealers don't provide a greater service to a vehicle than a standard mechanic shop can provide other than verified manufacturer parts at markup. " I agree that dealers aren't always best, but they're generally quite good when the vehicle is less than about 10 years old. They have all the best tools, training, and experience with those vehicles. Independent mechanics (especially those who focus on a few brands) are generally better with older vehicles.

porknubbins 5y ago
I do more or less all the work on my vehicles. Its much cheaper to buy parts online and watch youtube. But when my 5 year old Hyundai started randomly braking and accelerating and OBD only said Can bus issue I decided that I was willing to pay up for a dealer to diagnose and guarantee the fix. It was a fuel pump computer so it would’ve been cheap to fix but not worth it to waste my time troubleshooting.
CogitoCogito 5y ago
I guess the rational solution is for regulators to force the release of those manufacture specific tools.
- nickff 5y ago
  Some of the manufacturers sell the codes (or the tools), but they're expensive, and not really worth it unless you specialize in those vehicles.
  - CogitoCogito 5y ago
    I guess I wasn’t clear in my last post. I meant that the rational thing would be to force the free release of the manufacture specific tools and information.
    - nickff 5y ago
      The manufacturers charge the dealers for those tools (a fact that some dealers resent); it would be quite something for them to make all that stuff free. I think the manufacturers would stop providing the tools and the codes to anyone, if there's no revenue to be had.
      - raxxorrax 5y ago
        Which artificially increases the price of repairs. The reason they need strong and clear regulation in the first place.

kylecordes 5y ago

It is frustrating that the OBD2 dataflow, which covers far more than emissions-related features, is only required in conjunction with emissions and therefore does not apply to electric vehicles. A more thoughtful legislature would have required a diagnostic port for all vehicles. Required that it emit codes covering all computerized aspects of the car. Required that all codes be emitted on the standard port, required that all manufacturers publish documentation for the meaning of the codes. (Of course it's probably not a matter of thoughtfulness, but rather a negotiation between many stakeholders, including lobby groups with substantial budgets.)

neuralRiot 5y ago
There’s something like that (j2534). It was originally intended for reprogramming of emmission-related ECUs but since the hardware and software APIs where widely available many started using the standard for complete vehicle diagnostic. Today you can diagnostic and program almost all vehicle brands (for a fee) with just one VCI and without specialized computers since most run in-browser.
- monocasa 5y ago
  Pretty much every car model is different though once you get out of emissions land. Some are even different across an individual model year. Some manufacturers have a bad habit of implementing these commands under the hood as poke and peek memory inside the microcontrollers so you almost need a set of linker maps to make sense of everything.