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> As a matter of principle… It’s not really a matter of principal though! > [the competing platforms] have zero repeat zero positively zero benefit to myself

> As a matter of principle… It’s not really a matter of principal though! > [the competing platforms] have zero repeat zero positively zero benefit to myself as a consumer. The reason Steam and Netflix are so good and continue to exist in such a good state is exactly because of the competition. However, because of exclusivity, licensing, ownership, et cetera, that also means you eventually may want to deal with said competition.

Macha 5y ago
As a user, Steam and Netflix both provided more value to me prior to credible competition. Netflix used to be one €9.99 subscription to watch basically everything, Steam was the one stop shop to manage all my games. Basically all the features I care about on either were already well established before their competitors came around. On the other hand, my Steam account now represents a very expensive point of failure should it somehow get hacked or Valve decides to robo ban me.
- ThatPlayer 5y ago
  But Netflix wasn't profitable at a €9.99 subscription, and therefore that was never sustainable. Look at how Netflix continues to raises prices just this year already.
  - Macha 5y ago
    That's not the only reason to raise prices, or they wouldn't have raised them this year given they made a profit in 2021. Netflix's net income has been positive for the last decade: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/net-i... It might be a better business _for the the business owners_ with less licensing fees due to less third party content and higher prices, but that's not the same as being better for the users.
    - ThatPlayer 5y ago
      Their net income is positive, but their free cash flow afterwards is pretty substantially negative until recently: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/free-cash-flow https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/free-... It doesn't matter if it's better for the users if it is not sustainable. That's how you go out of business, which is no good for anyone.
NikolaNovak 5y ago
>>The reason Steam and Netflix are so good and continue to exist in such a good state is exactly because of the competition. I don't believe in this case that is demonstrably true. What has improved for me as a consumer with either platform since competition came - other then less content? In particular with Steam, I don't believe there has been a single improvement relevant to me. Uplay, ea origin, battle.net are purely net negatives to me, in their own right and in their impact on steam.
- squeaky-clean 5y ago
  Steam's refund policy used to be abysmal until Origin added no-hassle refunds. Within about 6 months Steam changed to the policy they have now. Big Picture Mode only came about because they tried developing Steam Machines to compete with Microsoft potentially locking everything into the app store. I don't think UPlay and Battle.net have caused any changes though, lol. Their only attempts at competition have been game exclusivity.
  - account42 5y ago
    > Steam's refund policy used to be abysmal until Origin added no-hassle refunds Didn't the refund policy come after they lost a court case in Australia [0]. Sure they could have made it country-specific but that would a) have been an incredibly bad look and b) promptet similar lawsuits in other countries with a semblance of consumer protection laws and c) probably doesn't actually lose tham that much money as it also means that people are less reluctant to purchase. [0] https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/valve-australia-fine-1202772984/ https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/valve-australia-fine-12...

Macha 5y ago

As a user, Steam and Netflix both provided more value to me prior to credible competition. Netflix used to be one €9.99 subscription to watch basically everything, Steam was the one stop shop to manage all my games. Basically all the features I care about on either were already well established before their competitors came around. On the other hand, my Steam account now represents a very expensive point of failure should it somehow get hacked or Valve decides to robo ban me.

ThatPlayer 5y ago
But Netflix wasn't profitable at a €9.99 subscription, and therefore that was never sustainable. Look at how Netflix continues to raises prices just this year already.
- Macha 5y ago
  That's not the only reason to raise prices, or they wouldn't have raised them this year given they made a profit in 2021. Netflix's net income has been positive for the last decade: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/net-i... It might be a better business _for the the business owners_ with less licensing fees due to less third party content and higher prices, but that's not the same as being better for the users.
  - ThatPlayer 5y ago
    Their net income is positive, but their free cash flow afterwards is pretty substantially negative until recently: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/free-cash-flow https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NFLX/netflix/free-... It doesn't matter if it's better for the users if it is not sustainable. That's how you go out of business, which is no good for anyone.

NikolaNovak 5y ago

>>The reason Steam and Netflix are so good and continue to exist in such a good state is exactly because of the competition. I don't believe in this case that is demonstrably true. What has improved for me as a consumer with either platform since competition came - other then less content? In particular with Steam, I don't believe there has been a single improvement relevant to me. Uplay, ea origin, battle.net are purely net negatives to me, in their own right and in their impact on steam.

squeaky-clean 5y ago
Steam's refund policy used to be abysmal until Origin added no-hassle refunds. Within about 6 months Steam changed to the policy they have now. Big Picture Mode only came about because they tried developing Steam Machines to compete with Microsoft potentially locking everything into the app store. I don't think UPlay and Battle.net have caused any changes though, lol. Their only attempts at competition have been game exclusivity.
- account42 5y ago
  > Steam's refund policy used to be abysmal until Origin added no-hassle refunds Didn't the refund policy come after they lost a court case in Australia [0]. Sure they could have made it country-specific but that would a) have been an incredibly bad look and b) promptet similar lawsuits in other countries with a semblance of consumer protection laws and c) probably doesn't actually lose tham that much money as it also means that people are less reluctant to purchase. [0] https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/valve-australia-fine-1202772984/ https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/valve-australia-fine-12...