6 ms·

This corresponds with what I've read previously about brain activity following clinical death. What appears to be the case is that the brain continues to work f

This corresponds with what I've read previously about brain activity following clinical death. What appears to be the case is that the brain continues to work for a period after the heart stops and a last breath is taken. So what that might mean is that if one is with a person who has just died, a relative or friend, there is still a moment, just a moment, to say good bye and I love you. And it is comforting to know that during that moment, the brain of the deceased might just be reliving all the greatest moments of that individual's life.

tmikaeld 5y ago
Beautifully said, reminds me of "All these years, all these memories, there was you. You pulled me through time." from the fountain.
- nefitty 5y ago
  I'm rewatching Midnight Mass on Netflix with my wife. They have some very powerful monologues on death. This is one that occurred to me just now, when two characters are discussing what they believe happens after death: "When I die, my body stops functioning. Five minutes later, my brain cells start dying. But in the meantime, in between, maybe my brain releases a flood of DMT – the psychedelic drug released when we dream – so I dream. I dream bigger than I have ever dreamed before because it’s all of it. Just the last dump of DMT all at once, and my neurons are firing and I’m seeing this firework display of memories and imagination. My mind’s rifling through the memories, long and short term, and the dreams mix with the memories. And it’s a curtain call. One last great dream as my mind empties the fuckin’ missile silos, and then I stop. My brain activity ceases and there is nothing left of me. No pain, no memory, no awareness that I ever was. That I ever hurt someone. That I ever killed someone. Everything is as it was before me. All of the other little things that make me up – the microbes and bacterium and the billion other little things that live on my eyelashes and in my hair and in my mouth and on my skin and in my gut and everywhere else, they just keep on living and eating. And I’m serving a purpose. I’m feeding life and I’m broken apart and all the littlest pieces of me are just recycled and I’m billions of other places. And my atoms are in plants and bugs and animals, and I am like the stars that are in the sky. There one moment and then just scattered across the goddamn cosmos.” https://adrianvstheworld.com/2021/10/05/midnight-mass-and-the-monologue-that-shattered-me/ https://adrianvstheworld.com/2021/10/05/midnight-mass-and-th... And, another moving monologue, this one's a spoiler so heads up: https://www.reddit.com/r/HauntingOfHillHouse/comments/pxw74y/midnight_mass_final_soliloquy_about_the_nature_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HauntingOfHillHouse/comments/pxw74y... Either way, this show hit me unexpectedly. One of my favorite "deep watches" in a long time.
  - jamcohen 5y ago
    I also find comfort in the idea of becoming food after we die. I remember reading somewhere how a beached whale in the arctic can be a life-saving windfall for the scavengers there. Helped me see the positive in something I’d always seen as purely tragic.
    - nefitty 5y ago
      Same here. It's helpful insofar as any story can be helpful in the face of what we have to go through. Interestingly enough, although my wife shares the same beliefs as me in terms of religion and God, the stories that resonate most with her from that show were the evocative ones about God and heaven. She told me that the science-based ones barely register to her at all, and almost not at all on an emotional level. As I heard the other character describe her idea of heaven, I too feel the pull of those descriptions. There's a part of me that agrees with the character when he says, after listening to her speech, wiping away tears, "I really hope you're right."
      - sockpuppet_12 5y ago
        Most people think of heaven when it comes to the Bible's view of life after death, but it speaks more about a resurrection from the dead for the vast majority of people who die, to live forever on a paradise Earth. There is something in us that makes us yearn for more than the short lives we have now (hardly anybody would choose to die if they had good health under normal circumstances), so these do resonate with us more than a purely materialistic world view, which has ostensibly left people with lack of contentment and sense of purpose.
        nefitty 5y ago
        It's a real danger that we'll have to deal with on a sociological level soon. Atheism is on the rise. I'm not versed in atheism as it occurs in countries other than in the US, but it seems like we'll see new types of problems that are not immediately apparent. That's the double-edged sword of rationalism. Truth and reason above all... But it's vital to remember that we're squishy and mushy and spiritual and emotional beings. It seems like it will be a lot of fun to be involved in media as it comes to deal with that shift more and more. What stories make the most sense, while still holding truth at the center? What do people need? I'm reminded of the prototypical Alan Watts lectures. He might be out of fashion at the moment, but maybe his work will one day again be a little flicker in the cave for us to reach for, down the line.
omgitsabird 5y ago
It seems strange to imagine telling someone who isn't going to experience anything ever again anything at all.
- pasquinelli 5y ago
  people are strange then.
- neuronic 5y ago
  If they listen and notice they experience something right then and there and maybe at that point it's nice to feel loved... a sweet moment for a dying person briefly supercedes the metaphysical confusion of the living.
- fredoliveira 5y ago
  At that point I would imagine the words are mostly for the speaker, rather than the listener. Mourning is all about saying goodbye.
- colordrops 5y ago
  All of us will eventually never experience anything ever again. What's the difference between a few seconds and a few years.
tgv 5y ago
The brain might very well be in a weird state at that moment. In that case, it would be best if it is unconscious. Comfort is not high on nature's agenda.
- ianai 5y ago
  Agree. Comfort's not high, but "survival" is. So it could be a really chaotic intermix of things still working and others not, and still others working in previously impossible states. Pain and possibly torture sound likely.
KineticLensman 5y ago
> the brain continues to work for a period after the heart stops I had a sudden cardiac arrest (Ventricular Fibrillation). I felt dizzy and oriented for a few seconds (5?) after my heart stopped pumping blood and then I passed out. There was no life-flashing-before-my-eyes, no tunnels of light, just sudden dizziness and disorientation and then nothing. The next thing I remember was coming round in hospital.
- oblak 5y ago
  What if you just don't remember the experiences you've had during this moment? Not impossible, imho
  - root_axis 5y ago
    An interesting thought, but in my mind it also raises the question of the meaning behind a sequence of memories that you don't remember remembering, there's simply no reason to assume it happened at all since without memories there is no other evidence of the event.
    - omgitsabird 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterograde_amnesia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterograde_amnesia
    - willis936 5y ago
      A dying person will not revisit their final moments if they were saved as memories. Giving comfort in passing is a kindness and a dignity to both the dying and the bereaved.
  - neuronic 5y ago
    True, forming memories at that time might simply be unnecessary overhead since you're not likely to turn back without significant medical help. Memories that will never be accessed are just pointless. But so are hiccups, who knows...
  - 5y ago
mirceal 5y ago
this assumes that death is binary: you're either dead or not. this is not how things work. you don't know the precise time duration and what happens unless you are there to experience it. i think the best time to say goodbye and i love you is at any point in time
damontal 5y ago
I wonder if there’s truth to the reports of people after being Guillotined still being able to blink and make facial expressions even though their head has just been severed.
qiskit 5y ago
> So what that might mean is that if one is with a person who has just died, a relative or friend, there is still a moment, just a moment, to say good bye and I love you. Just because there is brain activity doesn't mean there is consciousness. A 10 week old fetus has brain activity. But it is not anything we'd call conscious. If your heart stops or you've stopped breathing, then it's highly unlikely you are conscious. But if it helps one cope with a loved one's death, perhaps there is no harm in letting them believe the deceased could hear your final goodbyes.
- namero999 5y ago
  Cognition != consciousness (or actually, ⊂ )
qwertywert_ 5y ago
I though everyone knew this? The brain wouldn't just immediately stop working because a heart stopped pumping, there would be some sort of delay effect there.

tmikaeld 5y ago

Beautifully said, reminds me of "All these years, all these memories, there was you. You pulled me through time." from the fountain.

nefitty 5y ago
I'm rewatching Midnight Mass on Netflix with my wife. They have some very powerful monologues on death. This is one that occurred to me just now, when two characters are discussing what they believe happens after death: "When I die, my body stops functioning. Five minutes later, my brain cells start dying. But in the meantime, in between, maybe my brain releases a flood of DMT – the psychedelic drug released when we dream – so I dream. I dream bigger than I have ever dreamed before because it’s all of it. Just the last dump of DMT all at once, and my neurons are firing and I’m seeing this firework display of memories and imagination. My mind’s rifling through the memories, long and short term, and the dreams mix with the memories. And it’s a curtain call. One last great dream as my mind empties the fuckin’ missile silos, and then I stop. My brain activity ceases and there is nothing left of me. No pain, no memory, no awareness that I ever was. That I ever hurt someone. That I ever killed someone. Everything is as it was before me. All of the other little things that make me up – the microbes and bacterium and the billion other little things that live on my eyelashes and in my hair and in my mouth and on my skin and in my gut and everywhere else, they just keep on living and eating. And I’m serving a purpose. I’m feeding life and I’m broken apart and all the littlest pieces of me are just recycled and I’m billions of other places. And my atoms are in plants and bugs and animals, and I am like the stars that are in the sky. There one moment and then just scattered across the goddamn cosmos.” https://adrianvstheworld.com/2021/10/05/midnight-mass-and-the-monologue-that-shattered-me/ https://adrianvstheworld.com/2021/10/05/midnight-mass-and-th... And, another moving monologue, this one's a spoiler so heads up: https://www.reddit.com/r/HauntingOfHillHouse/comments/pxw74y/midnight_mass_final_soliloquy_about_the_nature_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HauntingOfHillHouse/comments/pxw74y... Either way, this show hit me unexpectedly. One of my favorite "deep watches" in a long time.
- jamcohen 5y ago
  I also find comfort in the idea of becoming food after we die. I remember reading somewhere how a beached whale in the arctic can be a life-saving windfall for the scavengers there. Helped me see the positive in something I’d always seen as purely tragic.
  - nefitty 5y ago
    Same here. It's helpful insofar as any story can be helpful in the face of what we have to go through. Interestingly enough, although my wife shares the same beliefs as me in terms of religion and God, the stories that resonate most with her from that show were the evocative ones about God and heaven. She told me that the science-based ones barely register to her at all, and almost not at all on an emotional level. As I heard the other character describe her idea of heaven, I too feel the pull of those descriptions. There's a part of me that agrees with the character when he says, after listening to her speech, wiping away tears, "I really hope you're right."
    - sockpuppet_12 5y ago
      Most people think of heaven when it comes to the Bible's view of life after death, but it speaks more about a resurrection from the dead for the vast majority of people who die, to live forever on a paradise Earth. There is something in us that makes us yearn for more than the short lives we have now (hardly anybody would choose to die if they had good health under normal circumstances), so these do resonate with us more than a purely materialistic world view, which has ostensibly left people with lack of contentment and sense of purpose.
      - nefitty 5y ago
        It's a real danger that we'll have to deal with on a sociological level soon. Atheism is on the rise. I'm not versed in atheism as it occurs in countries other than in the US, but it seems like we'll see new types of problems that are not immediately apparent. That's the double-edged sword of rationalism. Truth and reason above all... But it's vital to remember that we're squishy and mushy and spiritual and emotional beings. It seems like it will be a lot of fun to be involved in media as it comes to deal with that shift more and more. What stories make the most sense, while still holding truth at the center? What do people need? I'm reminded of the prototypical Alan Watts lectures. He might be out of fashion at the moment, but maybe his work will one day again be a little flicker in the cave for us to reach for, down the line.

omgitsabird 5y ago

It seems strange to imagine telling someone who isn't going to experience anything ever again anything at all.

pasquinelli 5y ago
people are strange then.
neuronic 5y ago
If they listen and notice they experience something right then and there and maybe at that point it's nice to feel loved... a sweet moment for a dying person briefly supercedes the metaphysical confusion of the living.
fredoliveira 5y ago
At that point I would imagine the words are mostly for the speaker, rather than the listener. Mourning is all about saying goodbye.
colordrops 5y ago
All of us will eventually never experience anything ever again. What's the difference between a few seconds and a few years.

tgv 5y ago

The brain might very well be in a weird state at that moment. In that case, it would be best if it is unconscious. Comfort is not high on nature's agenda.

ianai 5y ago
Agree. Comfort's not high, but "survival" is. So it could be a really chaotic intermix of things still working and others not, and still others working in previously impossible states. Pain and possibly torture sound likely.

KineticLensman 5y ago

> the brain continues to work for a period after the heart stops I had a sudden cardiac arrest (Ventricular Fibrillation). I felt dizzy and oriented for a few seconds (5?) after my heart stopped pumping blood and then I passed out. There was no life-flashing-before-my-eyes, no tunnels of light, just sudden dizziness and disorientation and then nothing. The next thing I remember was coming round in hospital.

oblak 5y ago
What if you just don't remember the experiences you've had during this moment? Not impossible, imho
- root_axis 5y ago
  An interesting thought, but in my mind it also raises the question of the meaning behind a sequence of memories that you don't remember remembering, there's simply no reason to assume it happened at all since without memories there is no other evidence of the event.
  - omgitsabird 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterograde_amnesia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterograde_amnesia
  - willis936 5y ago
    A dying person will not revisit their final moments if they were saved as memories. Giving comfort in passing is a kindness and a dignity to both the dying and the bereaved.
- neuronic 5y ago
  True, forming memories at that time might simply be unnecessary overhead since you're not likely to turn back without significant medical help. Memories that will never be accessed are just pointless. But so are hiccups, who knows...
- 5y ago

mirceal 5y ago

this assumes that death is binary: you're either dead or not. this is not how things work. you don't know the precise time duration and what happens unless you are there to experience it. i think the best time to say goodbye and i love you is at any point in time

damontal 5y ago

I wonder if there’s truth to the reports of people after being Guillotined still being able to blink and make facial expressions even though their head has just been severed.

qiskit 5y ago

> So what that might mean is that if one is with a person who has just died, a relative or friend, there is still a moment, just a moment, to say good bye and I love you. Just because there is brain activity doesn't mean there is consciousness. A 10 week old fetus has brain activity. But it is not anything we'd call conscious. If your heart stops or you've stopped breathing, then it's highly unlikely you are conscious. But if it helps one cope with a loved one's death, perhaps there is no harm in letting them believe the deceased could hear your final goodbyes.

namero999 5y ago
Cognition != consciousness (or actually, ⊂ )

qwertywert_ 5y ago

I though everyone knew this? The brain wouldn't just immediately stop working because a heart stopped pumping, there would be some sort of delay effect there.