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> The greatest scam of Google and Apple is convincing millions of developers to learn Swift and Kotlin to make apps on their stores that can be swiftly (pun int

> The greatest scam of Google and Apple is convincing millions of developers to learn Swift and Kotlin to make apps on their stores that can be swiftly (pun intended) removed from their stores I certainly won't defend Apple and Google's app store monopolies and control. However, Kotlin was actually a case of Google listening to the developer community. Google could have, and wanted to, push Dart (see Flutter) on Android. But the Android development community was already adopting JetBrain's Kotlin. Google listened and embraced Kotlin instead of pushing their own thing. It was not a hostile act.

pjmlp 5y ago
If Google actually listened to the Java developer community, they would have kept Java up to date instead of doing their own version of .NET. Naturally after showing the finger to Sun and Oracle, "Android.NET" is the way.
Larrikin 5y ago
Dare I say Google embracing and pushing Kotlin on the Android ecosystem was the last good thing I can remember Google doing. The language is such a joy to to work in without the pitfalls that come with Scala
- pmarreck 5y ago
  That is because only masochists use Scala
- tadfisher 5y ago
  I don't know, Compose is fantastic as well. The way the runtime, foundation, and UI libraries are layered make it a breeze to extend, and the layout system is the only sane one I've used. Overall Compose is a paradigm shift that is too-often compared to React, Flutter or SwiftUI by those who haven't written code using it.
  - Larrikin 5y ago
    Our dev team is looking to switch as soon as we have time to learn it. I assumed it was going to be like React from the one tutorial I've done of it so far, which already excited us. Is this the best resource for learning it well enough to come out with your opinion that its even better? https://developer.android.com/courses/pathways/compose https://developer.android.com/courses/pathways/compose I'm also a little worried about missing components currently available in XML, although I know you can mix and match, but not sure how that actually is in practice.
    - ianlevesque 5y ago
      The one time I had to mix so far, to display a CameraX preview view, it worked fine.
- acjohnson55 5y ago
  They each have their place. Kotlin is super Java. Scala is it's own thing, in a similar sense as Clojure or Groovy.
- NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
  As someone with a lot of java experience and a small taste of scala, what are the pitfalls that Kotlin avoids?
  - argestes 5y ago
    implicits
CSMastermind 5y ago
Is Dart dead yet? I narrowly won an argument with an evangelical principal engineer who wanted our whole company to switch to Dart around 7 years ago.
- ranguna 5y ago
  Not if you like flutter.
saurik 5y ago
I don't think the point was Kotlin and Swift vs. Java and Objective-C, but merely these native languages (listing the current generation) instead of, say, JavaScript.

pjmlp 5y ago

If Google actually listened to the Java developer community, they would have kept Java up to date instead of doing their own version of .NET. Naturally after showing the finger to Sun and Oracle, "Android.NET" is the way.

Larrikin 5y ago

Dare I say Google embracing and pushing Kotlin on the Android ecosystem was the last good thing I can remember Google doing. The language is such a joy to to work in without the pitfalls that come with Scala

pmarreck 5y ago
That is because only masochists use Scala
tadfisher 5y ago
I don't know, Compose is fantastic as well. The way the runtime, foundation, and UI libraries are layered make it a breeze to extend, and the layout system is the only sane one I've used. Overall Compose is a paradigm shift that is too-often compared to React, Flutter or SwiftUI by those who haven't written code using it.
- Larrikin 5y ago
  Our dev team is looking to switch as soon as we have time to learn it. I assumed it was going to be like React from the one tutorial I've done of it so far, which already excited us. Is this the best resource for learning it well enough to come out with your opinion that its even better? https://developer.android.com/courses/pathways/compose https://developer.android.com/courses/pathways/compose I'm also a little worried about missing components currently available in XML, although I know you can mix and match, but not sure how that actually is in practice.
  - ianlevesque 5y ago
    The one time I had to mix so far, to display a CameraX preview view, it worked fine.
acjohnson55 5y ago
They each have their place. Kotlin is super Java. Scala is it's own thing, in a similar sense as Clojure or Groovy.
NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
As someone with a lot of java experience and a small taste of scala, what are the pitfalls that Kotlin avoids?
- argestes 5y ago
  implicits

CSMastermind 5y ago

Is Dart dead yet? I narrowly won an argument with an evangelical principal engineer who wanted our whole company to switch to Dart around 7 years ago.

ranguna 5y ago
Not if you like flutter.

saurik 5y ago

I don't think the point was Kotlin and Swift vs. Java and Objective-C, but merely these native languages (listing the current generation) instead of, say, JavaScript.