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I've said this before. There's a strong libertarian bent to HN and I'm not surprised if there's a large contingent of this site that actively supports the convo

I've said this before. There's a strong libertarian bent to HN and I'm not surprised if there's a large contingent of this site that actively supports the convoy. There's people here that are strong supports of Peter Thiel, if that's any indication of where their sympathies lie. But, most of them are not residents of Ottawa, and the lived experiences of people in that city, particurlarly those who have had run ins with the protesters, or struggled through the 16-18 hours / day of honking, had to walk around or be harrassed by them, see the awful imagery of Trump, Confederate etc. flags being waved around, the yellow star morons etc. cannot simply be dismissed as bad or inaccurate media. A city is being held hostage by an extreme minority and, even in OPs post they mention that the Toronto police handled it properly, but question the admonition levied against the Ottawa police. The Ottawa police are complicit in this now as well as city council. They sat on their hands while allowing this to spiral out of control, and now want to play the victim or blame others (e.g. blaming counter protesters today). It doesn't matter if you side with the protest or not. The sheer fact that they've been allowed to have large impact on the city and it's residents, for this long, is proof that the so-called lack of freedom that they're fighting for is simply not the bogeyman they've made it out to be. Especially if you're white.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
AzzieElbab 5y ago
what is wrong with listening to "minorities". Doesnt BLM represent a minority, especially in Canada? Also, a couple of confederate and nazi flags do not define these protests.
- cf100clunk 5y ago
  False equivalence? The behaviour of these recent protestors is the crux of the issue.
- purephase 5y ago
  Hahaha.. this is a hilarious comment. These people are not the minority. They're self-professed victimes of so-called tyranny that doesn't exist. The sheer fact that they're able to protest for this long, in this way, at the nations capital is ample evidence that this so-called tyranny they're fighting is a delusion. Equivocating that with the lived experience of millions of people who are fighting for true equality is truly a laughable position. Honk, I guess.
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    minority does not need to be defined by race sex or religion. What about people who had covid and reluctant about vaccines? All that word soup is irrelevant. Getting fired after having worked through the heights of epidemic is a serious "lived experience" and also "an ample evidence" of bureaucratic overreach. Anyway, bunch of provinces including Ontario already cancelled vaccine mandates and vaccine passports, only real holdouts are BC and Quebec. Trackers already won. The government can easily deescalate but choosing not to due fear and spite
    - purephase 5y ago
      Getting fired for not getting vaccines was a line that I didn't agree with. However, the vast majority of organizations that did this were private though, and it was the organization that implemented these policies. I'd hardly equate that with government overreach, and especially not the federal government if you're a nurse/healthcare worker, or worked in a local municipal government. My point is that these protests don't have anything to do with vaccines, mandates or some perceived minority status that not following them bestows (which, again, is a choice..). If that was the case, they would not be in Ottawa. There might be some people paying lip service to these ideas, but the majority of the people protesting are self-labelling as minorities due to some perception of tyranny from the federal government that does not exist. Unless you're a federal employee that was fired due to your position on vaccines (over 95% of federal employees are vaccinated) then protesting in Ottawa doesn't make any sense.
      - armagon 5y ago
j_walter 5y ago
>A city is being held hostage by an extreme minority and, even in OPs post they mention that the Toronto police handled it properly, but question the admonition levied against the Ottawa police. >The Ottawa police are complicit in this now as well as city council. They sat on their hands while allowing this to spiral out of control, and now want to play the victim or blame others (e.g. blaming counter protesters today). >It doesn't matter if you side with the protest or not. The sheer fact that they've been allowed to have large impact on the city and it's residents, for this long, is proof that the so-called lack of freedom that they're fighting for is simply not the bogeyman they've made it out to be. Especially if you're white. This is really not much different than how Portland handled the BLM protests in 2020. 100 straight nights of extreme protests with violence against police and federal buildings. Only difference is this is during the night and many neighborhoods were terrorized as it moved from downtown. Not much media coverage of this other than conservative journalist Andy Ngo who has himself been violently targeted for simply recording and publishing video of what is happening.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  A major difference is that the police would issue dispersal orders, then attack the BLM protesters indiscriminately, or call curfews which basically declared open season on any kind of protester, journalist, civilian, doing anything outdoors after X o'clock. The police were shooting rubber bullets at people sitting on their own porches. This is not how Ottawa is being handled, this is not how January 6th was handled, and if BLM protesters decided they were going to shut down an international bridge that provided 1/3 of trade with the US, that wouldn't have made it a hour before an extreme response was taken. If the trucker protest were treated like the BLM protests, you'd see people blinded and dead, and it would be completely torn apart every night to have to be reassembled the next day. At least compare it to Occupy, although they were in a park instead of blocking roads.
  - FireBeyond 5y ago
    > A major difference is that the police would issue dispersal orders, then attack the BLM protesters indiscriminately, or call curfews which basically declared open season on any kind of protester, journalist, civilian, doing anything outdoors after X o'clock. The police were shooting rubber bullets at people sitting on their own porches. Whilst also advising Proud Boys and Three Per Centers of their "enforcement plans", texting them to "take cover" and that they'd be given an "all clear" when they come back out. Or being advised that although their leaders had active arrest warrants, that they would not be arrested at any protests that were "supervised" by Portland Police Department, so they should "feel free" to come to protests.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
They had farmer protests in the Netherlands with tractors. I think we may have invented it? https://www.politico.eu/article/angry-dutch-farmers-swarm-the-hague-to-protest-green-rules/ https://www.politico.eu/article/angry-dutch-farmers-swarm-th... Anyway society loved it at first until they caused too many traffic jams. Public opinion turned and it was over quickly. If you are a work at home software dev these kind of protests don't affect you until Amazon stops delivering.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
newsbinator 5y ago
> I've said this before. There's a strong libertarian bent to HN and I'm not surprised if there's a large contingent of this site that actively supports the convoy. There's people here that are strong supports of Peter Thiel, if that's any indication of where their sympathies lie. To me the political bent of HN isn't relevant when reading a comment. I'd rather take each comment on its own merits, without guessing or assuming what the ideology of the commenter would have to be. I recently lived in a country in which wearing the wrong color socks is grounds for instant prison, so I prefer when my government's monopoly on violence errs on the side of restraint, as in the case of these protestors. Should individual protestors get shut down when they harass mask-wearing doctors or honk horns in the middle of the night? Obviously. But there is some fuzzy line in which we let protestors do otherwise illegal or fineable things that we don't let individuals do. I could be convinced that skin color is a factor as you mentioned, but at the moment I have no idea.
- SauciestGNU 5y ago
  I don't know what the answer is with these protests, but criminalizing them isn't the answer. I'm an active leftist and do a lot of mutual aid and protesting. I've been beaten by cops and had them deploy munitions against me. Giving cops more latitude to deal with this protest movement will mean that they deploy even more force against me the next time I'm politely asking that they stop murdering people.
- purephase 5y ago
  The original comment was mentioning the downvotes, not comments. I agree on engaging comments (hence this conversation) but there's definitely brigading happening with votes if you post anything that the libertarians disagree with.
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
> I've said this before. There's a strong libertarian bent to HN and I'm not surprised if there's a large contingent of this site that actively supports the convoy. There's people here that are strong supports of Peter Thiel, if that's any indication of where their sympathies lie. Wait and you've extrapolated this from claims of a downvote made in the first hour after posting a reply on a politically controversial topic? HN is a huge site, are you really expecting unanimous political views? This is par for the course on these threads.
- hanselot 5y ago
Dig1t 5y ago
I'm a total moderate, I try very hard not to view these things through a partisan lens. As a free thinking human I feel no need to have my opinions dictated by any group of people. I think your comment is one that has some merit WRT the police's actions and what they might be able to do better, but it is framed in such a hostile, inflammatory, extremely partisan way. You criticize this website for being bent on some partisan streak that you don't like and needlessly bring race into the conversation when this entire thing has nothing to do with race whatsoever. > is proof that the so-called lack of freedom that they're fighting for is simply not the bogeyman they've made it out to be It's disingenuous to equate the lack of freedom that they are talking about with the lack of freedom to protest. They are not the same thing, the protesters are talking about vaccine mandates specifically.
blindmute 5y ago
Making one city a bit uncomfortable temporarily is well worth creating justice for an entire country permanently. Sucks for Ottowans, but the truckers are doing the right thing morally.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

AzzieElbab 5y ago

what is wrong with listening to "minorities". Doesnt BLM represent a minority, especially in Canada? Also, a couple of confederate and nazi flags do not define these protests.

cf100clunk 5y ago
False equivalence? The behaviour of these recent protestors is the crux of the issue.
purephase 5y ago
Hahaha.. this is a hilarious comment. These people are not the minority. They're self-professed victimes of so-called tyranny that doesn't exist. The sheer fact that they're able to protest for this long, in this way, at the nations capital is ample evidence that this so-called tyranny they're fighting is a delusion. Equivocating that with the lived experience of millions of people who are fighting for true equality is truly a laughable position. Honk, I guess.
- AzzieElbab 5y ago
  minority does not need to be defined by race sex or religion. What about people who had covid and reluctant about vaccines? All that word soup is irrelevant. Getting fired after having worked through the heights of epidemic is a serious "lived experience" and also "an ample evidence" of bureaucratic overreach. Anyway, bunch of provinces including Ontario already cancelled vaccine mandates and vaccine passports, only real holdouts are BC and Quebec. Trackers already won. The government can easily deescalate but choosing not to due fear and spite
  - purephase 5y ago
    Getting fired for not getting vaccines was a line that I didn't agree with. However, the vast majority of organizations that did this were private though, and it was the organization that implemented these policies. I'd hardly equate that with government overreach, and especially not the federal government if you're a nurse/healthcare worker, or worked in a local municipal government. My point is that these protests don't have anything to do with vaccines, mandates or some perceived minority status that not following them bestows (which, again, is a choice..). If that was the case, they would not be in Ottawa. There might be some people paying lip service to these ideas, but the majority of the people protesting are self-labelling as minorities due to some perception of tyranny from the federal government that does not exist. Unless you're a federal employee that was fired due to your position on vaccines (over 95% of federal employees are vaccinated) then protesting in Ottawa doesn't make any sense.
    - armagon 5y ago

j_walter 5y ago

>A city is being held hostage by an extreme minority and, even in OPs post they mention that the Toronto police handled it properly, but question the admonition levied against the Ottawa police. >The Ottawa police are complicit in this now as well as city council. They sat on their hands while allowing this to spiral out of control, and now want to play the victim or blame others (e.g. blaming counter protesters today). >It doesn't matter if you side with the protest or not. The sheer fact that they've been allowed to have large impact on the city and it's residents, for this long, is proof that the so-called lack of freedom that they're fighting for is simply not the bogeyman they've made it out to be. Especially if you're white. This is really not much different than how Portland handled the BLM protests in 2020. 100 straight nights of extreme protests with violence against police and federal buildings. Only difference is this is during the night and many neighborhoods were terrorized as it moved from downtown. Not much media coverage of this other than conservative journalist Andy Ngo who has himself been violently targeted for simply recording and publishing video of what is happening.

pessimizer 5y ago
A major difference is that the police would issue dispersal orders, then attack the BLM protesters indiscriminately, or call curfews which basically declared open season on any kind of protester, journalist, civilian, doing anything outdoors after X o'clock. The police were shooting rubber bullets at people sitting on their own porches. This is not how Ottawa is being handled, this is not how January 6th was handled, and if BLM protesters decided they were going to shut down an international bridge that provided 1/3 of trade with the US, that wouldn't have made it a hour before an extreme response was taken. If the trucker protest were treated like the BLM protests, you'd see people blinded and dead, and it would be completely torn apart every night to have to be reassembled the next day. At least compare it to Occupy, although they were in a park instead of blocking roads.
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  > A major difference is that the police would issue dispersal orders, then attack the BLM protesters indiscriminately, or call curfews which basically declared open season on any kind of protester, journalist, civilian, doing anything outdoors after X o'clock. The police were shooting rubber bullets at people sitting on their own porches. Whilst also advising Proud Boys and Three Per Centers of their "enforcement plans", texting them to "take cover" and that they'd be given an "all clear" when they come back out. Or being advised that although their leaders had active arrest warrants, that they would not be arrested at any protests that were "supervised" by Portland Police Department, so they should "feel free" to come to protests.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

They had farmer protests in the Netherlands with tractors. I think we may have invented it? https://www.politico.eu/article/angry-dutch-farmers-swarm-the-hague-to-protest-green-rules/ https://www.politico.eu/article/angry-dutch-farmers-swarm-th... Anyway society loved it at first until they caused too many traffic jams. Public opinion turned and it was over quickly. If you are a work at home software dev these kind of protests don't affect you until Amazon stops delivering.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

newsbinator 5y ago

> I've said this before. There's a strong libertarian bent to HN and I'm not surprised if there's a large contingent of this site that actively supports the convoy. There's people here that are strong supports of Peter Thiel, if that's any indication of where their sympathies lie. To me the political bent of HN isn't relevant when reading a comment. I'd rather take each comment on its own merits, without guessing or assuming what the ideology of the commenter would have to be. I recently lived in a country in which wearing the wrong color socks is grounds for instant prison, so I prefer when my government's monopoly on violence errs on the side of restraint, as in the case of these protestors. Should individual protestors get shut down when they harass mask-wearing doctors or honk horns in the middle of the night? Obviously. But there is some fuzzy line in which we let protestors do otherwise illegal or fineable things that we don't let individuals do. I could be convinced that skin color is a factor as you mentioned, but at the moment I have no idea.

SauciestGNU 5y ago
I don't know what the answer is with these protests, but criminalizing them isn't the answer. I'm an active leftist and do a lot of mutual aid and protesting. I've been beaten by cops and had them deploy munitions against me. Giving cops more latitude to deal with this protest movement will mean that they deploy even more force against me the next time I'm politely asking that they stop murdering people.
purephase 5y ago
The original comment was mentioning the downvotes, not comments. I agree on engaging comments (hence this conversation) but there's definitely brigading happening with votes if you post anything that the libertarians disagree with.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago

hanselot 5y ago

Dig1t 5y ago

I'm a total moderate, I try very hard not to view these things through a partisan lens. As a free thinking human I feel no need to have my opinions dictated by any group of people. I think your comment is one that has some merit WRT the police's actions and what they might be able to do better, but it is framed in such a hostile, inflammatory, extremely partisan way. You criticize this website for being bent on some partisan streak that you don't like and needlessly bring race into the conversation when this entire thing has nothing to do with race whatsoever. > is proof that the so-called lack of freedom that they're fighting for is simply not the bogeyman they've made it out to be It's disingenuous to equate the lack of freedom that they are talking about with the lack of freedom to protest. They are not the same thing, the protesters are talking about vaccine mandates specifically.

blindmute 5y ago

Making one city a bit uncomfortable temporarily is well worth creating justice for an entire country permanently. Sucks for Ottowans, but the truckers are doing the right thing morally.