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This is extremely dismissive of the issue, which does exist to some extent, even if its often over blown. The problem isn't "13 year olds being traumatized bec

This is extremely dismissive of the issue, which does exist to some extent, even if its often over blown. The problem isn't "13 year olds being traumatized because they see sex on a screen" but "13 year olds developing porn addiction alongside their burgeoning sexuality". Porn addiction is a very real issue and todays youth is especially susceptible to it. Today a 13 y/o boy can see more breasts in an hour than every one of his prior-digital age male ancestors have seen combined. Its an absolute stimulus overload.

Mindwipe 5y ago
> Porn addiction is a very real issue It's literally highly contested if it even exists. The evidence base is extremely poor.
- changxi_hn 5y ago
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  What's contested is if its the porn itself that causes the addiction or the feedback loop and easy access is what leads to compulsive consumption. No mainstream psychological organization is saying that there are no addictive or compulsive behaviors associated with excess porn consuption, just that it doesnt meet the critia as a medically diagnosed addiction and is closer to a compulsion. For laymen however, referring to it as an addiction is what most accurately encompasses its impact on those who become compulsive consumers of it.
  - sdze 5y ago
    Porn addiction is a marketing gimmick from the sphere of „nofap“ and co snakeoil salesmen.
    - tanseydavid 5y ago
      Can you point to any real world instance where someone is "marketing" NOFAP and profiting (or attempting to profit) from it? This assertion seems odd to me. More importantly: you should not assume that just because you do not suffer from porn addiction that others do not suffer from it.
      - sdze 5y ago
        a) Build a community around a topic b) Create an identifier for this community we are NoFap and We celebrate NoNutNovember c) Sell SELF-HELP books, merchandise and services around the topic in order to guilt trip people into believing this voodoo science. i.e. https://nofap.com/groups/ https://nofap.com/groups/ It's the oldest trick in the book.
scrollaway 5y ago
> Today a 13 y/o boy can see more breasts Poor little guy! Certainly can’t let young kids see breasts lest they become raging maniacs. Societal mental health, brought to you by bottled milk.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  Glad you took that example and interpreted it in bad faith.
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    It’s not in bad faith. The example you gave is emblematic of where the cultural differences are. Porn addiction may or may not be a problem but a puritan society only makes it worse. People freaking out about “what if a young’un sees the genitalia of the other gender” are, without fault, part of extreme puritan societies like the USA. There is a similar problem around alcohol addiction and without fault, you’ll find that people have a much worse relationship with alcohol when their first introduction to it is a massive party for their 21st. Anecdotally, my first taste of alcohol was red wine at 12 (I’m French and it’s pretty common here). Today I rarely ever drink anything. The problem in that equation is not the availability of porn, it’s the taboo around sex.
    - MathCodeLove 5y ago
      I could have easily replaced "breasts" with "intercourse" and the message conveyed would be the same. Children are being exposed to exponentially more sexually charged content in the first few years of their lives than most men historically have been in their entire lives. This isn't a case of rampant puritanism, go to Pornhub (one of the milder purveyors) and tell me that most of their front-page content is a depiction of healthy sex between two loving adults.
      - justsomehnguy 5y ago
        > and tell me that most of their front-page content is a depiction of healthy sex between two loving adults Go to [0] and tell me how that is a depiction of a healthy whatever. Also please describe how the paywall on porn sites would help poor 13 y.o. chaps not to see this. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs
viraptor 5y ago
> Today a 13 y/o boy can see more breasts in an hour than every one of his prior-digital age male ancestors have seen combined. May be true on average, but there are not-so-exceptional exceptions to this. For example areas where topless sunbathing is common and cultures where breasts aren't hidden because of puritan ideas. (Also maybe Nordic countries? Not sure how old teens are before mixed naked saunas are a normal thing) If that was a significant problem you'd think we'd see some extreme behaviours there.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  True but I would wager that it certainly wasn't in the same context as often found online. That aside I could (and should) have just used "intercourse" as an alternative example to convey the same point.
culopatin 5y ago
Breasts wouldn’t even be too bad. But porn nowadays is very extreme. Anal gaping and massive dildos may make young teens think that that’s normal and that their first girlfriend will be into that.
LatteLazy 5y ago
Today a 13 y/o boy can see more types of fruit in a supermarket in an hour than every one of his prior-digital age male ancestors have seen combined. Its an absolute stimulus overload. When will we bad fruit? Or maybe things changing isn't necessarily a catastrophe 100% of the time?
- tekknik 5y ago
  Fruit and nudity are not the same. Fruit doesn’t trigger hormonal responses, nudity does.
  - LatteLazy 5y ago
    Actually they do. Specifically insulin but others too. Eating too much fruit actually could turn you blind... And there are a whole bunch of foods that affect your sexual hormone levels too.
    - tanseydavid 5y ago
      Would you still exert this much effort to minimize or trivialize if we were talking about 10 year old children instead of 13 year old children? What if it was 8 year old children? Would you feel differently then?
      - vidarh 5y ago
        At 8 and 10 I'd spent time on beaches in Denmark on holiday that were all clothing optional. I'd seen plenty of people of all ages fully nude. It was perhaps a novelty for a few minutes, and then it wore off. If anything, I'm a bit worried at what growing up in puritan countries without even visiting places like that and getting nudity normalised does to people.
        MathCodeLove 5y ago
        Did you see them also having hardcore sex constantly? Because that's the true equivalent here.
lariati 5y ago
Exactly. We have no idea what this is doing to people. There is a shocking drop in the testosterone levels of young men from 1999 to 2016 per studies if you google it. 20-30% drop. The correlation in data would obviously be there but who knows about causation. I am 50 and didn't see hardcore porn until I was almost 18. Some kid got into his fathers porn collection and was playing it at a party. I still remember it was the most horny I had ever been at that point in my life. It is illogical to believe that level of stimulation from the onset of puberty has no effect on development. I don't see what the solution to this is though. It is a really tough subject to study on any real level.
- Auracle 5y ago
  Back before the modern age it probably wasn’t uncommon for children/teens to see actual people having sex in front of them. Also, sperm levels have been dropping for far longer than internet porn has been a thing. It stands to reason they might share a cause. There isn’t a solution. You can’t block teens from viewing porn. The best thing you can do is educate them that (most) porn isn’t a reflection of what most sex is like, and to watch out for porn addiction.

Mindwipe 5y ago

> Porn addiction is a very real issue It's literally highly contested if it even exists. The evidence base is extremely poor.

changxi_hn 5y ago
MathCodeLove 5y ago
What's contested is if its the porn itself that causes the addiction or the feedback loop and easy access is what leads to compulsive consumption. No mainstream psychological organization is saying that there are no addictive or compulsive behaviors associated with excess porn consuption, just that it doesnt meet the critia as a medically diagnosed addiction and is closer to a compulsion. For laymen however, referring to it as an addiction is what most accurately encompasses its impact on those who become compulsive consumers of it.
- sdze 5y ago
  Porn addiction is a marketing gimmick from the sphere of „nofap“ and co snakeoil salesmen.
  - tanseydavid 5y ago
    Can you point to any real world instance where someone is "marketing" NOFAP and profiting (or attempting to profit) from it? This assertion seems odd to me. More importantly: you should not assume that just because you do not suffer from porn addiction that others do not suffer from it.
    - sdze 5y ago
      a) Build a community around a topic b) Create an identifier for this community we are NoFap and We celebrate NoNutNovember c) Sell SELF-HELP books, merchandise and services around the topic in order to guilt trip people into believing this voodoo science. i.e. https://nofap.com/groups/ https://nofap.com/groups/ It's the oldest trick in the book.

scrollaway 5y ago

> Today a 13 y/o boy can see more breasts Poor little guy! Certainly can’t let young kids see breasts lest they become raging maniacs. Societal mental health, brought to you by bottled milk.

MathCodeLove 5y ago
Glad you took that example and interpreted it in bad faith.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  It’s not in bad faith. The example you gave is emblematic of where the cultural differences are. Porn addiction may or may not be a problem but a puritan society only makes it worse. People freaking out about “what if a young’un sees the genitalia of the other gender” are, without fault, part of extreme puritan societies like the USA. There is a similar problem around alcohol addiction and without fault, you’ll find that people have a much worse relationship with alcohol when their first introduction to it is a massive party for their 21st. Anecdotally, my first taste of alcohol was red wine at 12 (I’m French and it’s pretty common here). Today I rarely ever drink anything. The problem in that equation is not the availability of porn, it’s the taboo around sex.
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    I could have easily replaced "breasts" with "intercourse" and the message conveyed would be the same. Children are being exposed to exponentially more sexually charged content in the first few years of their lives than most men historically have been in their entire lives. This isn't a case of rampant puritanism, go to Pornhub (one of the milder purveyors) and tell me that most of their front-page content is a depiction of healthy sex between two loving adults.
    - justsomehnguy 5y ago
      > and tell me that most of their front-page content is a depiction of healthy sex between two loving adults Go to [0] and tell me how that is a depiction of a healthy whatever. Also please describe how the paywall on porn sites would help poor 13 y.o. chaps not to see this. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsm4poTWjMs

viraptor 5y ago

> Today a 13 y/o boy can see more breasts in an hour than every one of his prior-digital age male ancestors have seen combined. May be true on average, but there are not-so-exceptional exceptions to this. For example areas where topless sunbathing is common and cultures where breasts aren't hidden because of puritan ideas. (Also maybe Nordic countries? Not sure how old teens are before mixed naked saunas are a normal thing) If that was a significant problem you'd think we'd see some extreme behaviours there.

MathCodeLove 5y ago
True but I would wager that it certainly wasn't in the same context as often found online. That aside I could (and should) have just used "intercourse" as an alternative example to convey the same point.

culopatin 5y ago

Breasts wouldn’t even be too bad. But porn nowadays is very extreme. Anal gaping and massive dildos may make young teens think that that’s normal and that their first girlfriend will be into that.

LatteLazy 5y ago

Today a 13 y/o boy can see more types of fruit in a supermarket in an hour than every one of his prior-digital age male ancestors have seen combined. Its an absolute stimulus overload. When will we bad fruit? Or maybe things changing isn't necessarily a catastrophe 100% of the time?

tekknik 5y ago
Fruit and nudity are not the same. Fruit doesn’t trigger hormonal responses, nudity does.
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  Actually they do. Specifically insulin but others too. Eating too much fruit actually could turn you blind... And there are a whole bunch of foods that affect your sexual hormone levels too.
  - tanseydavid 5y ago
    Would you still exert this much effort to minimize or trivialize if we were talking about 10 year old children instead of 13 year old children? What if it was 8 year old children? Would you feel differently then?
    - vidarh 5y ago
      At 8 and 10 I'd spent time on beaches in Denmark on holiday that were all clothing optional. I'd seen plenty of people of all ages fully nude. It was perhaps a novelty for a few minutes, and then it wore off. If anything, I'm a bit worried at what growing up in puritan countries without even visiting places like that and getting nudity normalised does to people.
      - MathCodeLove 5y ago
        Did you see them also having hardcore sex constantly? Because that's the true equivalent here.

lariati 5y ago

Exactly. We have no idea what this is doing to people. There is a shocking drop in the testosterone levels of young men from 1999 to 2016 per studies if you google it. 20-30% drop. The correlation in data would obviously be there but who knows about causation. I am 50 and didn't see hardcore porn until I was almost 18. Some kid got into his fathers porn collection and was playing it at a party. I still remember it was the most horny I had ever been at that point in my life. It is illogical to believe that level of stimulation from the onset of puberty has no effect on development. I don't see what the solution to this is though. It is a really tough subject to study on any real level.

Auracle 5y ago
Back before the modern age it probably wasn’t uncommon for children/teens to see actual people having sex in front of them. Also, sperm levels have been dropping for far longer than internet porn has been a thing. It stands to reason they might share a cause. There isn’t a solution. You can’t block teens from viewing porn. The best thing you can do is educate them that (most) porn isn’t a reflection of what most sex is like, and to watch out for porn addiction.