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It is being forced. If you can experience significant losses or risks unless you comply, that’s being forced. You’re being disingenuous. It’s easy to see where

It is being forced. If you can experience significant losses or risks unless you comply, that’s being forced. You’re being disingenuous. It’s easy to see where this breaks down - per your logic a mobster running a protection racket isn’t forcing anyone to pay extortion money either.

dang 5y ago
Please omit personal swipes from your comments here. This flamewar is bad enough already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  My mistake. You’re right I could’ve made that comment without the personal swipe.
PierceJoy 5y ago
It's not forced. There any many jobs that don't require a vaccine. It's a choice. A protection racket is enforced through the use of physical violence. Terrible analogy.
- throwawaysea 5y ago
  And this is forced through other means that aren’t physical - but it is still forced. I am also not sure why the choice to get other jobs changes or justifies anything here. For example consider this: “There are other jobs so quit complaining when we racially discriminate against you.”
  - PierceJoy 5y ago
    > And this is forced through other means that aren’t physical - but it is still forced. No, it is not forced. It is a choice. > For example consider this: “There are other jobs so quit complaining when we racially discriminate against you.” Race is a protected class. Vaccination status is not unless you have a document medical reason.
    - cfcosta 5y ago
      Except it is, check the Nuremberg tribunal case.
      - PierceJoy 5y ago
        Can you point me to the part of the Canadian Human Rights Act that defines vaccination status as a protected class?
- odshoifsdhfs 5y ago
  I'm your boss, either have sex with me or be fired. You aren't forced, there are a lot of other jobs that don't require you to have sex with the boss. You ok with this? Don't have an abortion or you will be fired. Don't have a kid or you will be fired. It is always a choice right?
  - mthoms 5y ago
    In Canada, all of what you just described is illegal.
    - odshoifsdhfs 5y ago
      That is the point. 'Have a vaccine or be fired' is the same. Sure, it isn't 'forced' as in, we will tie you up and someone will give you the vaccine, (same as have sex with me or be fired, technically I won't force myself on you) but basically amounts to the same. And taking in account that a) there are vaccine side effects (I had them and know a few others that also did) b) they don't really help with the spread, just reducing the symptoms, it shouldn't be the business deciding on it.
- chrismcb 5y ago
  By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will. In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine. They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to take the vaccine. Yes, it isn't physical force, but it is forced none the less.
  - PierceJoy 5y ago
    > By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will. Yes, but they aren't required to get the vaccine against their will. They have the choice to quit. That's what makes it a choice. If they had no choice to quit, then you would be correct. > In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine. Exactly. > They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to take the vaccine. Some choices are hard. That's life. As you wrote in the previous sentence, it is a choice. > Yes, it isn't physical force, but it is forced none the less No more forced than any other condition of employment.
    - salawat 5y ago
      "You will give me what I want, or you will choose to relinquish your livelihood" does not sound like a choice, but an ultimatum. Heads: I win, Tails: you lose is not good faith in the slightest, or even a reasonable facsimile of a choice.
      - mthoms 5y ago
        Speaking of good faith arguments; as you know they can still be truckers. Just not international truckers. There are tons of domestic trucking jobs. And they can’t be international truckers anyways because the US won’t let them in without a vaccine.
seemack 5y ago
Accepting your premise that it's being forced on us, how is this different from the many other laws we are "forced" to obey as a part of Canadian society?
- salawat 5y ago
  Consent of the governed, quite obviously.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    Majority consent[0], which is what we have in the case of the vaccine. [0] except for protected classes, there are specific carve outs for that.

dang 5y ago

Please omit personal swipes from your comments here. This flamewar is bad enough already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

throwawaysea 5y ago
My mistake. You’re right I could’ve made that comment without the personal swipe.

PierceJoy 5y ago

It's not forced. There any many jobs that don't require a vaccine. It's a choice. A protection racket is enforced through the use of physical violence. Terrible analogy.

throwawaysea 5y ago
And this is forced through other means that aren’t physical - but it is still forced. I am also not sure why the choice to get other jobs changes or justifies anything here. For example consider this: “There are other jobs so quit complaining when we racially discriminate against you.”
- PierceJoy 5y ago
  > And this is forced through other means that aren’t physical - but it is still forced. No, it is not forced. It is a choice. > For example consider this: “There are other jobs so quit complaining when we racially discriminate against you.” Race is a protected class. Vaccination status is not unless you have a document medical reason.
  - cfcosta 5y ago
    Except it is, check the Nuremberg tribunal case.
    - PierceJoy 5y ago
      Can you point me to the part of the Canadian Human Rights Act that defines vaccination status as a protected class?
odshoifsdhfs 5y ago
I'm your boss, either have sex with me or be fired. You aren't forced, there are a lot of other jobs that don't require you to have sex with the boss. You ok with this? Don't have an abortion or you will be fired. Don't have a kid or you will be fired. It is always a choice right?
- mthoms 5y ago
  In Canada, all of what you just described is illegal.
  - odshoifsdhfs 5y ago
    That is the point. 'Have a vaccine or be fired' is the same. Sure, it isn't 'forced' as in, we will tie you up and someone will give you the vaccine, (same as have sex with me or be fired, technically I won't force myself on you) but basically amounts to the same. And taking in account that a) there are vaccine side effects (I had them and know a few others that also did) b) they don't really help with the spread, just reducing the symptoms, it shouldn't be the business deciding on it.
chrismcb 5y ago
By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will. In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine. They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to take the vaccine. Yes, it isn't physical force, but it is forced none the less.
- PierceJoy 5y ago
  > By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will. Yes, but they aren't required to get the vaccine against their will. They have the choice to quit. That's what makes it a choice. If they had no choice to quit, then you would be correct. > In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine. Exactly. > They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to take the vaccine. Some choices are hard. That's life. As you wrote in the previous sentence, it is a choice. > Yes, it isn't physical force, but it is forced none the less No more forced than any other condition of employment.
  - salawat 5y ago
    "You will give me what I want, or you will choose to relinquish your livelihood" does not sound like a choice, but an ultimatum. Heads: I win, Tails: you lose is not good faith in the slightest, or even a reasonable facsimile of a choice.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      Speaking of good faith arguments; as you know they can still be truckers. Just not international truckers. There are tons of domestic trucking jobs. And they can’t be international truckers anyways because the US won’t let them in without a vaccine.

seemack 5y ago

Accepting your premise that it's being forced on us, how is this different from the many other laws we are "forced" to obey as a part of Canadian society?

salawat 5y ago
Consent of the governed, quite obviously.
- mthoms 5y ago
  Majority consent[0], which is what we have in the case of the vaccine. [0] except for protected classes, there are specific carve outs for that.