5 ms·

Herd immunity only applies if the vaccine is sterilizing and prevents infection. The Covid vaccines do not, so herd immunity is impossible with them.

bitshiftfaced 5y ago
Seems more nuanced than that. Herd immunity is a function of how contagious you are, which with COVID is a function of how symptomatic you are, right? I think someone who's having coughing fits will more likely spread it. If the vaccine decreases symptoms, then it strengthens herd immunity. Also, even if herd immunity is impossible, some reduced spread is a good thing by itself
- collias 5y ago
  Data from other countries with a >90% vaccinated rate for Covid would suggest otherwise. Take a look at Israel or Ireland in the past few months, for example. Israel is currently debating whether or not a 5th booster will be enough as they're seeing record infections.
esalman 5y ago
"Herd immunity only applies if the vaccine ... prevents infection". There is no vaccine that prevents some kind of infection with 100% accuracy across all population. Basically implies you know jack about herd immunity.
- collias 5y ago
  You're right, no vaccine is 100% effective. But there are vaccines that are more than ~75% effective at preventing infection, which is the number that Fauci kept mentioning when this all started.
  - esalman 5y ago
    Herd immunity does not depend on the efficacy of the vaccine. It depends on the R_nought of the disease. There are several ways to reduce the R_nought below 1 (at which point we achieve herd immunity). Vaccines is just one of them. Claiming things that vaccines don't work, doesn't prevent infection, impossible to achieve herd immunity with them- helps absolutely nobody.
    - collias 5y ago
      Covid-19 vaccines don't prevent infection, and it is impossible to achieve herd immunity with them. These are facts, and they are relevant to the comment I was originally replying on.
      - esalman 5y ago
        Where did you find these facts? fyi, I have studied epidemiology in the context of network science in school.

bitshiftfaced 5y ago

Seems more nuanced than that. Herd immunity is a function of how contagious you are, which with COVID is a function of how symptomatic you are, right? I think someone who's having coughing fits will more likely spread it. If the vaccine decreases symptoms, then it strengthens herd immunity. Also, even if herd immunity is impossible, some reduced spread is a good thing by itself

collias 5y ago
Data from other countries with a >90% vaccinated rate for Covid would suggest otherwise. Take a look at Israel or Ireland in the past few months, for example. Israel is currently debating whether or not a 5th booster will be enough as they're seeing record infections.

esalman 5y ago

"Herd immunity only applies if the vaccine ... prevents infection". There is no vaccine that prevents some kind of infection with 100% accuracy across all population. Basically implies you know jack about herd immunity.

collias 5y ago
You're right, no vaccine is 100% effective. But there are vaccines that are more than ~75% effective at preventing infection, which is the number that Fauci kept mentioning when this all started.
- esalman 5y ago
  Herd immunity does not depend on the efficacy of the vaccine. It depends on the R_nought of the disease. There are several ways to reduce the R_nought below 1 (at which point we achieve herd immunity). Vaccines is just one of them. Claiming things that vaccines don't work, doesn't prevent infection, impossible to achieve herd immunity with them- helps absolutely nobody.
  - collias 5y ago
    Covid-19 vaccines don't prevent infection, and it is impossible to achieve herd immunity with them. These are facts, and they are relevant to the comment I was originally replying on.
    - esalman 5y ago
      Where did you find these facts? fyi, I have studied epidemiology in the context of network science in school.