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This is like HN bingo - how many posts before someone blames Apple for something totally unconnected. Yesterday a poster blamed them somehow for Tesla leaving

This is like HN bingo - how many posts before someone blames Apple for something totally unconnected. Yesterday a poster blamed them somehow for Tesla leaving a brake pad off a car..

JaimeThompson 5y ago
Who are they supposed to blame, Tesla?
nisa 5y ago
But it's true: https://web.archive.org/web/20190105145403/https://tumblr.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012260613-November-16-2018-Issues-with-the-iOS-app https://web.archive.org/web/20190105145403/https://tumblr.ze...
- zimpenfish 5y ago
  That's Tumblr pointing out that they were removed from the app store because of CSAM - not general adult content. And once they blocked that CSAM, they were back.
  - nisa 5y ago
    thanks for the clarification.
  - kyledrake 5y ago
    But that's kind of the problem here. Apple removed an entire platform for what I'm assuming was a few CP reports, and Tumblr reacted by adding an extremely aggressive "adult content" filter that wiped out a ton of legal content, and triggered a mass exodus from their platform, so they wouldn't get their app permanently removed from the app store and have their business completely destroyed. This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone but CP happens from time to time on all large platforms, you get reports and you remove it, it's just a fact of life if you do a lot of third party content hosting. Tumblr doesn't have the means to pre-screen all of the content on their network, so they chose to eliminate all potentially problematic content before it gets published using an aggressive ML porn detector (probably Yahoo's open_nsfw), rather than face Apple's wrath on it. Again, for what was probably a few specific reports on a few tumblr accounts Apple was threatening to (and temporarily did) remove an entire platform from the store that billions of users require to install it. This is absolutely a consequence of their monopolistic and arbitrary control of their store and their policies that leave no room for error in content moderation. Apple is absolutely altering the nature of the web when they do things like this, and deciding through fear what kind of content is going to be allowed by scaring platforms into adopting a lower floor of controllable risk. Whether you agree that Apple's infamously closed off bureaucracy should be the content mods or not for any platform that requires use of a phone camera, criticizing them about it is absolutely within the bounds of valid discussion here because they absolutely played a key, major role in a change that wiped out an enormous percentage of Tumblr's users, the vast majority of whom were not violating any laws. Now I should mention they certainly have the legal right to do so, just as Twitter had the same legal right to ban a Twitter account for a ToS violation, but this feels a lot more concerning to me. It would be like if Apple was telling Twitter to dump an account for their ToS violation or they would remove Twitter from their app store.
    - pram 5y ago
      Tumblr was already making people mark their blog NSFW and started filtering posts and tags long before the App Store thing. They had been “belling the cat” in preparation for an eventual ban.
    - zimpenfish 5y ago
      > Tumblr reacted by adding an extremely aggressive "adult content" filter Which they were already preparing. It wasn't a reaction to the app store removal - they had been planning it for months and this just prompted a quicker activation. > so they wouldn't get their app permanently removed from the app store No. They were going to do this regardless of the app store snafu. You can't blame Apple for this move on Tumblr's part (but you could possibly blame Apple for perhaps overreacting to "a few reports" although I don't think we've ever got the full story of what went actually on...)
  - Macha 5y ago
    How much effort is it to scan for porn/have reviewers informed all porn is banned? Vs. How effort is it to allow porn but have some algorithm or reviewers determine what is porn but is allowed vs what is CSAM? Obviously images of abuse of a 10 year old are clear, but much more content than that is disallowed, yet you're going to get a lot of shit for taking down self-taken images of that young looking 20 year old when your policy allows porn, and if you overcorrect the other direction you'll get even more shit for not taking down images of that older looking 16 year old.
sva_ 5y ago
I feel like the real HN bingo is Apple fanboys coming out of nowhere to defend Apple about some arbitrary thing. Well, perhaps they're mutually dependent.
ravi-delia 5y ago
Just a few days ago it became clear that a large number of tags were shadowbanned only on Apple devices.

This is like HN bingo - how many posts before someone blames Apple for something totally unconnected. Yesterday a poster blamed them somehow for Tesla leaving a brake pad off a car..

JaimeThompson 5y ago

Who are they supposed to blame, Tesla?

nisa 5y ago

But it's true: https://web.archive.org/web/20190105145403/https://tumblr.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012260613-November-16-2018-Issues-with-the-iOS-app https://web.archive.org/web/20190105145403/https://tumblr.ze...

zimpenfish 5y ago
That's Tumblr pointing out that they were removed from the app store because of CSAM - not general adult content. And once they blocked that CSAM, they were back.
- nisa 5y ago
  thanks for the clarification.
- kyledrake 5y ago
  But that's kind of the problem here. Apple removed an entire platform for what I'm assuming was a few CP reports, and Tumblr reacted by adding an extremely aggressive "adult content" filter that wiped out a ton of legal content, and triggered a mass exodus from their platform, so they wouldn't get their app permanently removed from the app store and have their business completely destroyed. This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone but CP happens from time to time on all large platforms, you get reports and you remove it, it's just a fact of life if you do a lot of third party content hosting. Tumblr doesn't have the means to pre-screen all of the content on their network, so they chose to eliminate all potentially problematic content before it gets published using an aggressive ML porn detector (probably Yahoo's open_nsfw), rather than face Apple's wrath on it. Again, for what was probably a few specific reports on a few tumblr accounts Apple was threatening to (and temporarily did) remove an entire platform from the store that billions of users require to install it. This is absolutely a consequence of their monopolistic and arbitrary control of their store and their policies that leave no room for error in content moderation. Apple is absolutely altering the nature of the web when they do things like this, and deciding through fear what kind of content is going to be allowed by scaring platforms into adopting a lower floor of controllable risk. Whether you agree that Apple's infamously closed off bureaucracy should be the content mods or not for any platform that requires use of a phone camera, criticizing them about it is absolutely within the bounds of valid discussion here because they absolutely played a key, major role in a change that wiped out an enormous percentage of Tumblr's users, the vast majority of whom were not violating any laws. Now I should mention they certainly have the legal right to do so, just as Twitter had the same legal right to ban a Twitter account for a ToS violation, but this feels a lot more concerning to me. It would be like if Apple was telling Twitter to dump an account for their ToS violation or they would remove Twitter from their app store.
  - pram 5y ago
    Tumblr was already making people mark their blog NSFW and started filtering posts and tags long before the App Store thing. They had been “belling the cat” in preparation for an eventual ban.
  - zimpenfish 5y ago
    > Tumblr reacted by adding an extremely aggressive "adult content" filter Which they were already preparing. It wasn't a reaction to the app store removal - they had been planning it for months and this just prompted a quicker activation. > so they wouldn't get their app permanently removed from the app store No. They were going to do this regardless of the app store snafu. You can't blame Apple for this move on Tumblr's part (but you could possibly blame Apple for perhaps overreacting to "a few reports" although I don't think we've ever got the full story of what went actually on...)
- Macha 5y ago
  How much effort is it to scan for porn/have reviewers informed all porn is banned? Vs. How effort is it to allow porn but have some algorithm or reviewers determine what is porn but is allowed vs what is CSAM? Obviously images of abuse of a 10 year old are clear, but much more content than that is disallowed, yet you're going to get a lot of shit for taking down self-taken images of that young looking 20 year old when your policy allows porn, and if you overcorrect the other direction you'll get even more shit for not taking down images of that older looking 16 year old.

sva_ 5y ago

I feel like the real HN bingo is Apple fanboys coming out of nowhere to defend Apple about some arbitrary thing. Well, perhaps they're mutually dependent.

ravi-delia 5y ago

Just a few days ago it became clear that a large number of tags were shadowbanned only on Apple devices.