6 ms·

The article also argues that severity of autism doesn't really make sense.

by Okx 5y ago

guerrilla 5y ago
Alright, well I can't agree to that part. It all depends on your goals and some people are less able to accomplish their own goals than others due to those traits from the spectrum. There's no need for conceiving of utility to others to speak of grades of functionality.
- zepto 5y ago
  Sure, but the point is that the thing that is ‘severe’ isn’t ‘autism’. An autistic person can be severely disabled, but the disability is itself a trait they only some autistic people have, so it doesn’t make sense to call the disability ‘autism’.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    That doesn't seem like a useful place to draw the distinction. If someone has more autistic traits, they can be considered to be more autistic but not necessarily more disabled.
    - zepto 5y ago
      It’s not clear why you are disagreeing with me. More autistic isn’t the same a ‘severe’.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    well you can have a benign tumor or one that is killing you, by that theory we should say the one that is killing you shouldn't really be called a tumor.
    - zepto 5y ago
      No. You presuppose autism to be a disease, like a tumor.
      - chucksta 5y ago
        I think you are showing bias, there is nothing in that comment to suggest the point of the comment is calling autism a disease. I see it as juxtaposing the same condition to different outcomes.
        zepto 5y ago
        The commenter uses cancer as an analog for autism. That implies disease. It’s not a neutral comparison, and it’s not my bias that introduced the concept of disease. If you think it’s possible to make the same point without reference to a disease, then by all means do so.
        bryanrasmussen 5y ago
        oh darn, another pillar of moral rectitude is going after me, another day another HN comment as it were - very well then these are scooters https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71h6t5-7v7L._AC_SL1500_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71h6t5-7v7L._AC_SL1500_.... and so is this https://cdn.thewirecutter.com/wp-content/media/2021/12/electricscooter-2048px-1393.jpeg https://cdn.thewirecutter.com/wp-content/media/2021/12/elect... they both fall into the category of scooters although they perform at far different levels to where you can say the experience of them is far removed from each other. The difference of course between our two analogies, is that a tumor like autism is something that has been observed by people and not constructed by them, and we do not know much the reason why some tumors are benign and some not and we do not know much the reason why some people with autism are severely disabled and some not. But we do know why some scooters have electric motors and some do not. In fact it may be that at some point in the future the autism spectrum will be broken up and be identified as several different disabilities, lets say Preboscot's behavioral pattern for those with a range of light autistic behaviors and Ternobyni's syndrome for those with what we would describe as heavy autism today and in that imagined future these different disabilities do not have any actual connection to each other but just manifest in some similar symptoms, the same way that diamonds and clear quartz might have some similarities in appearance. But until that imagined future comes to pass we live in a present where the the extremes of the autism spectrum are still defined as autism. I hope that my explanation is acceptable to you, and if you feel a need to morally elevate yourself over others via the sport of internet commenting you pick another target as the night has just started where I am, and my severely disabled autistic child sometimes only lets me have a few hours of sleep as it is, I would at least like to spend the time before he wakes up and wants to jump about relaxing instead of in meaningless argumentation.
coldtea 5y ago
Well, if it leaves one unable to function effectively in society, or seriously hampered in that, it does make sense to differentiate from a less strong case.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- zeckalpha 5y ago
  That is a problem with society being severe, rather than the autistic individual
  - coldtea 5y ago
    Well, the society is what it is. If a person can't e.g. talk to someone to buy food, and the huge majority of people can, then they have a problem. That's not severe - it might be not perfectly accomondating, but it's reasonable. And of cource society does try to help in many ways (consulting, people being understanding, parents, school experts, medicine, etc)

The article also argues that severity of autism doesn't really make sense.

by Okx 5y ago

The article also argues that severity of autism doesn't really make sense.

Alright, well I can't agree to that part. It all depends on your goals and some people are less able to accomplish their own goals than others due to those traits from the spectrum. There's no need for conceiving of utility to others to speak of grades of functionality.

zepto 5y ago
Sure, but the point is that the thing that is ‘severe’ isn’t ‘autism’. An autistic person can be severely disabled, but the disability is itself a trait they only some autistic people have, so it doesn’t make sense to call the disability ‘autism’.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  That doesn't seem like a useful place to draw the distinction. If someone has more autistic traits, they can be considered to be more autistic but not necessarily more disabled.
  - zepto 5y ago
    It’s not clear why you are disagreeing with me. More autistic isn’t the same a ‘severe’.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  well you can have a benign tumor or one that is killing you, by that theory we should say the one that is killing you shouldn't really be called a tumor.
  - zepto 5y ago
    No. You presuppose autism to be a disease, like a tumor.
    - chucksta 5y ago
      I think you are showing bias, there is nothing in that comment to suggest the point of the comment is calling autism a disease. I see it as juxtaposing the same condition to different outcomes.
      - zepto 5y ago
        The commenter uses cancer as an analog for autism. That implies disease. It’s not a neutral comparison, and it’s not my bias that introduced the concept of disease. If you think it’s possible to make the same point without reference to a disease, then by all means do so.
        bryanrasmussen 5y ago
        oh darn, another pillar of moral rectitude is going after me, another day another HN comment as it were - very well then these are scooters https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71h6t5-7v7L._AC_SL1500_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71h6t5-7v7L._AC_SL1500_.... and so is this https://cdn.thewirecutter.com/wp-content/media/2021/12/electricscooter-2048px-1393.jpeg https://cdn.thewirecutter.com/wp-content/media/2021/12/elect... they both fall into the category of scooters although they perform at far different levels to where you can say the experience of them is far removed from each other. The difference of course between our two analogies, is that a tumor like autism is something that has been observed by people and not constructed by them, and we do not know much the reason why some tumors are benign and some not and we do not know much the reason why some people with autism are severely disabled and some not. But we do know why some scooters have electric motors and some do not. In fact it may be that at some point in the future the autism spectrum will be broken up and be identified as several different disabilities, lets say Preboscot's behavioral pattern for those with a range of light autistic behaviors and Ternobyni's syndrome for those with what we would describe as heavy autism today and in that imagined future these different disabilities do not have any actual connection to each other but just manifest in some similar symptoms, the same way that diamonds and clear quartz might have some similarities in appearance. But until that imagined future comes to pass we live in a present where the the extremes of the autism spectrum are still defined as autism. I hope that my explanation is acceptable to you, and if you feel a need to morally elevate yourself over others via the sport of internet commenting you pick another target as the night has just started where I am, and my severely disabled autistic child sometimes only lets me have a few hours of sleep as it is, I would at least like to spend the time before he wakes up and wants to jump about relaxing instead of in meaningless argumentation.

coldtea 5y ago

Well, if it leaves one unable to function effectively in society, or seriously hampered in that, it does make sense to differentiate from a less strong case.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zeckalpha 5y ago
That is a problem with society being severe, rather than the autistic individual
- coldtea 5y ago
  Well, the society is what it is. If a person can't e.g. talk to someone to buy food, and the huge majority of people can, then they have a problem. That's not severe - it might be not perfectly accomondating, but it's reasonable. And of cource society does try to help in many ways (consulting, people being understanding, parents, school experts, medicine, etc)