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>That said it's almost impossible to abuse mushrooms nonsense >there just isn't a desire to redo them often and it doesn't work well anyway. please don't tal

>That said it's almost impossible to abuse mushrooms nonsense >there just isn't a desire to redo them often and it doesn't work well anyway. please don't talk about your anecdotes as if they were facts. go to any psytrance festival in europe and marvel at people tripping for a week straight >I've never heard of someone being addicted to psilocybin. and I've met bucket loads of people "addicted" to living in the unreality of psychedelics. I guess that's not being "addicted to psilocybin" but if the end result is eating mushrooms x times per week then the effect is the same

leesalminen 5y ago
> I've met bucket loads of people addicted to living in the unreality of psychedelics. Same here. I used to be good friends with one person in particular who couldn't go more than a couple days without using psilocybin or LSD to change their reality. That's when we drifted paths. But, I heard a year ago that he had switched to heroin and died due to a fentanyl overdose. Getting addicted to altering your perception of reality is dangerous.
Synaesthesia 5y ago
Yeah MDMA is addictive, not very but it is. You can use 2cb and speed quite frequently. I know about that. But with shrooms taking a dose the next day or two hardly works at all, there is extreme short term tolerance. Trying to do it frequently was not pleasant in my experience, you just dont have a magical or interesting trip.
- neom 5y ago
  Careful with 2cb though, it's gotten me into some sticky situations more than once.
- alexnewman 5y ago
  I have met people emotionally addicted to microdosing psylicin. Negative withdrawal symptoms involved extreme emotional symptoms
  - andrei_says_ 5y ago
    I’ve been curious about what are people experiencing when microdosing it? My understanding is that - nothing, there’s no perceivable difference. If this is the case, what is the addiction to?
    - cj 5y ago
      > what is the addiction to? Perhaps psychological addiction to the habit? Fear, anxiety, uncertainty about what might happen if you stop the habit?
  - actusual 5y ago
    There is no such thing as "emotional addiction" or "physical addiction". There is addiction, and some substances have withdrawal symptoms when discontinued.
  - mansoon 5y ago
    As is the case when someone discontinues SSRIs.
the_only_law 5y ago
> please don’t talk about your anecdotes as if they were facts. Followed by multiple anecdotes…
- adsfoiu1 5y ago
  I think their point is that anecdotes are not very valuable and then gave examples of anecdotes that differ as a way to show that individual experiences / perceptions can be vastly different, which isn't at odds with their original point.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  The point being that you can easily summon anecdotes for or against virtually any proposition, so they tell you very little about the incidence of a phenomenon. Emptyfile also pointed out a venue where it would be easy to find counterexamples to Synaesthesia's claim.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Murfalo 5y ago
IIRC tolerance builds extremely quickly (after just one use) and is cross-tolerant with most other 5-HT2A agonists so I think tripping a week straight is not really possible.
- emptyfile 5y ago
  Tolerance just means you double the dose each day. People do it with LSD. Folks do crazy shit with drugs, in all honesty I think most people could hardly believe what kind of stuff drug users get up to. I appreciate the newfound silicon valley, positive, scientific approach to drugs, but over here on the party continent it's a lot different.
ActorNightly 5y ago
Its been proven that repeated use of psilocybin quickly builds up a tolerance to it, along with cross tolerance to LSD. Your statement about festivals in Europe is just plain false, by the end of the week you have to consume significant amount of mushrooms to get the same effect. Festivals feature a wide variety of drug use and taking small dosages of mushrooms for recreation for recreation isn't abuse. As far as addiction, there is chemical addiction, and psychological addition. The former isn't present for a lot of drugs. The latter is very hard to control for, because it really depends on the individual. People can definitely find comfort in escape from reality that psychedelics offer, which can lead to dependence. However, given an addictive personality, psilocybin use is still safer than comparable drugs, including weed. First, the method of intake through digestive tract is generally better for health than smoking. Secondly, there are no negative withdrawal symptoms from stopping, even with micro-dosing (so in the case of your festival goers, the supposed straight week of use produces no negative withdrawal effects). Thirdly, the desire to get a stronger escape from reality will involve someone taking a higher dose, which isn't a euphoric experience like weed or MDMA can produce - its fairly exhausting even when you are having a good time. So in the end, given the society view to alcohol and its comparable effects, psilocybin should absolutely be decriminalized and promoted as medicine for use, especially with therapy.
- thebean11 5y ago
  > Your statement about festivals in Europe is just plain false, by the end of the week you have to consume significant amount of mushrooms to get the same effect. You think it's impossible that people at festivals are consuming significant amounts of mushrooms by the end of the week..? That being said, the vast majority of even the heaviest users probably take a break after the festival.
  - ActorNightly 5y ago
    This is kinda anecdotal, but if you have ever done shrooms/LSD, you would understand how extremely unlikely this is. I generally should never say "false" with absolutism, since it is plausible, but in this case, given the users previous statements, I would bet significant money that he has no evidence of festival goers doing this with mushrooms. A good trip is usually around the 3.5 gram mark based on average experiences. If you do this, you are going to be fairly "fucked up" as people say. Its not gonna be a purely positive experience like MDMA, where once the effects wear off, you are going to want to do more to get back to your happy place. Most reality warping trips end up with person wanting it over because its so exhausting. The next day, if you really want to have the experience again, you have to do something like 5 grams to get the effect. The next day its going to be like 8 grams. Over a week, you are going to be ingesting something like 30 grams - in many places where shrooms are illegal, bringing that much to the festival is likely going to get you involved with security as intent to sell/distribute. LSD is way easier to do this with, as dosages last longer (12 hours on the average), and multiple tabs or it in liquid form is way easier to sneak in. However, again, the reality warping trips are not exactly pleasurable and quite exhausting, and you still have to do a boatload towards the end of the week, to get the same effect, which costs money and is a waste of a drug (and money). The way people consume psychedelics at festivals is usually in smaller dosages, where they are certainly not disassociated even remotely Doing this for a week is arguably less harmless than drinking enough beers to get a buzz every day. Weed/alcohol/mdma are much more common things that get used on a repetitive basis since the effects are pleasurable and you can redose to get back to euphoric state. There are definitely people that abuse psychs in general, but this is more of a personality issue than a drug issue. People can abuse generally harmless things like video games, and ruin their lives.

leesalminen 5y ago

> I've met bucket loads of people addicted to living in the unreality of psychedelics. Same here. I used to be good friends with one person in particular who couldn't go more than a couple days without using psilocybin or LSD to change their reality. That's when we drifted paths. But, I heard a year ago that he had switched to heroin and died due to a fentanyl overdose. Getting addicted to altering your perception of reality is dangerous.

Synaesthesia 5y ago

Yeah MDMA is addictive, not very but it is. You can use 2cb and speed quite frequently. I know about that. But with shrooms taking a dose the next day or two hardly works at all, there is extreme short term tolerance. Trying to do it frequently was not pleasant in my experience, you just dont have a magical or interesting trip.

neom 5y ago
Careful with 2cb though, it's gotten me into some sticky situations more than once.
alexnewman 5y ago
I have met people emotionally addicted to microdosing psylicin. Negative withdrawal symptoms involved extreme emotional symptoms
- andrei_says_ 5y ago
  I’ve been curious about what are people experiencing when microdosing it? My understanding is that - nothing, there’s no perceivable difference. If this is the case, what is the addiction to?
  - cj 5y ago
    > what is the addiction to? Perhaps psychological addiction to the habit? Fear, anxiety, uncertainty about what might happen if you stop the habit?
- actusual 5y ago
  There is no such thing as "emotional addiction" or "physical addiction". There is addiction, and some substances have withdrawal symptoms when discontinued.
- mansoon 5y ago
  As is the case when someone discontinues SSRIs.

the_only_law 5y ago

> please don’t talk about your anecdotes as if they were facts. Followed by multiple anecdotes…

adsfoiu1 5y ago
I think their point is that anecdotes are not very valuable and then gave examples of anecdotes that differ as a way to show that individual experiences / perceptions can be vastly different, which isn't at odds with their original point.
anigbrowl 5y ago
The point being that you can easily summon anecdotes for or against virtually any proposition, so they tell you very little about the incidence of a phenomenon. Emptyfile also pointed out a venue where it would be easy to find counterexamples to Synaesthesia's claim.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Murfalo 5y ago

IIRC tolerance builds extremely quickly (after just one use) and is cross-tolerant with most other 5-HT2A agonists so I think tripping a week straight is not really possible.

emptyfile 5y ago
Tolerance just means you double the dose each day. People do it with LSD. Folks do crazy shit with drugs, in all honesty I think most people could hardly believe what kind of stuff drug users get up to. I appreciate the newfound silicon valley, positive, scientific approach to drugs, but over here on the party continent it's a lot different.

ActorNightly 5y ago

Its been proven that repeated use of psilocybin quickly builds up a tolerance to it, along with cross tolerance to LSD. Your statement about festivals in Europe is just plain false, by the end of the week you have to consume significant amount of mushrooms to get the same effect. Festivals feature a wide variety of drug use and taking small dosages of mushrooms for recreation for recreation isn't abuse. As far as addiction, there is chemical addiction, and psychological addition. The former isn't present for a lot of drugs. The latter is very hard to control for, because it really depends on the individual. People can definitely find comfort in escape from reality that psychedelics offer, which can lead to dependence. However, given an addictive personality, psilocybin use is still safer than comparable drugs, including weed. First, the method of intake through digestive tract is generally better for health than smoking. Secondly, there are no negative withdrawal symptoms from stopping, even with micro-dosing (so in the case of your festival goers, the supposed straight week of use produces no negative withdrawal effects). Thirdly, the desire to get a stronger escape from reality will involve someone taking a higher dose, which isn't a euphoric experience like weed or MDMA can produce - its fairly exhausting even when you are having a good time. So in the end, given the society view to alcohol and its comparable effects, psilocybin should absolutely be decriminalized and promoted as medicine for use, especially with therapy.

thebean11 5y ago
> Your statement about festivals in Europe is just plain false, by the end of the week you have to consume significant amount of mushrooms to get the same effect. You think it's impossible that people at festivals are consuming significant amounts of mushrooms by the end of the week..? That being said, the vast majority of even the heaviest users probably take a break after the festival.
- ActorNightly 5y ago
  This is kinda anecdotal, but if you have ever done shrooms/LSD, you would understand how extremely unlikely this is. I generally should never say "false" with absolutism, since it is plausible, but in this case, given the users previous statements, I would bet significant money that he has no evidence of festival goers doing this with mushrooms. A good trip is usually around the 3.5 gram mark based on average experiences. If you do this, you are going to be fairly "fucked up" as people say. Its not gonna be a purely positive experience like MDMA, where once the effects wear off, you are going to want to do more to get back to your happy place. Most reality warping trips end up with person wanting it over because its so exhausting. The next day, if you really want to have the experience again, you have to do something like 5 grams to get the effect. The next day its going to be like 8 grams. Over a week, you are going to be ingesting something like 30 grams - in many places where shrooms are illegal, bringing that much to the festival is likely going to get you involved with security as intent to sell/distribute. LSD is way easier to do this with, as dosages last longer (12 hours on the average), and multiple tabs or it in liquid form is way easier to sneak in. However, again, the reality warping trips are not exactly pleasurable and quite exhausting, and you still have to do a boatload towards the end of the week, to get the same effect, which costs money and is a waste of a drug (and money). The way people consume psychedelics at festivals is usually in smaller dosages, where they are certainly not disassociated even remotely Doing this for a week is arguably less harmless than drinking enough beers to get a buzz every day. Weed/alcohol/mdma are much more common things that get used on a repetitive basis since the effects are pleasurable and you can redose to get back to euphoric state. There are definitely people that abuse psychs in general, but this is more of a personality issue than a drug issue. People can abuse generally harmless things like video games, and ruin their lives.