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Tgif [0] is interesting too, Prolog-based, with Hyper-Structured-Graphics [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tgif_(program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tg

by kbr2000 5y ago

Tgif [0] is interesting too, Prolog-based, with Hyper-Structured-Graphics [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tgif_(program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tgif_(program) [1] http://bourbon.usc.edu/tgif/hgviewer.html http://bourbon.usc.edu/tgif/hgviewer.html

watersb 5y ago
"Hyper-Structured Graphics" -- This was new to me, thanks! Essentially, hyperlinks for shapes; any graphic element can be linked to another, including other drawings (documents) or sections of a document. I suppose that's obvious these days. Hyperlinks are expected. I know that Visio (Windows) and OmniGraffle (MacOS) can do this. I would build active computer network diagrams, dashboards: you could click on a computer's graphic and get an SNMP report. SNMP: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Network_Management_Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Network_Management_Pr... https://www.omnigroup.com/omnigraffle https://www.omnigroup.com/omnigraffle https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/visio/flowchart-software https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/visio/flowchar... I think MacDraw did links, too. HyperCard, sure.
- kbr2000 5y ago
  Great, thanks for the info! I used Tgif for exactly that, designing SNMP monitoring with network maps/dashboard like pages. Forgot exactly which combinations I implemented, but it envolved Tgif, Tkined [0], Scotty [1], Big Brother [2] and later Netsaint [3] (now known as Nagios). [0] https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nm/tkined/welcome.html.orig https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nm/tkined/welcome.html.... [1] https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nm/scotty/tcl+snmp.html https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nm/scotty/tcl+snmp.html [2] https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2225 https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2225 [3] http://netsaint.sourceforge.net/ http://netsaint.sourceforge.net/
badsectoracula 5y ago
And apparently there is at least one guy using it to draw illustrations[1] and explain how to use it with a tutorial[0]. Sadly the site seems to have been moved from another location and the obj files (the files tgif uses) did not survive the move. Only one file was transferred from another tutorial (in Japanese) about using Tgif with Gimp, most likely because it had a "wrong" extension (.html). It does open fine in a build of Tgif i just did though[2]. [0] http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/HowToTgifE.html http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/HowToTgifE.html [1] http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/galgaE.html http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/galgaE.html [2] https://i.imgur.com/Rs5eG3M.png https://i.imgur.com/Rs5eG3M.png
- kbr2000 5y ago
  Well found ;) I remember crossing this multiple times since the 90s while looking for Tgif-related info, but always in Japanese I think... and every time with marvel for his technique applied with both excellent software.

watersb 5y ago

"Hyper-Structured Graphics" -- This was new to me, thanks! Essentially, hyperlinks for shapes; any graphic element can be linked to another, including other drawings (documents) or sections of a document. I suppose that's obvious these days. Hyperlinks are expected. I know that Visio (Windows) and OmniGraffle (MacOS) can do this. I would build active computer network diagrams, dashboards: you could click on a computer's graphic and get an SNMP report. SNMP: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Network_Management_Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Network_Management_Pr... https://www.omnigroup.com/omnigraffle https://www.omnigroup.com/omnigraffle https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/visio/flowchart-software https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/visio/flowchar... I think MacDraw did links, too. HyperCard, sure.

kbr2000 5y ago
Great, thanks for the info! I used Tgif for exactly that, designing SNMP monitoring with network maps/dashboard like pages. Forgot exactly which combinations I implemented, but it envolved Tgif, Tkined [0], Scotty [1], Big Brother [2] and later Netsaint [3] (now known as Nagios). [0] https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nm/tkined/welcome.html.orig https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nm/tkined/welcome.html.... [1] https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nm/scotty/tcl+snmp.html https://www.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de/projects/nm/scotty/tcl+snmp.html [2] https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2225 https://www.linuxjournal.com/article/2225 [3] http://netsaint.sourceforge.net/ http://netsaint.sourceforge.net/

badsectoracula 5y ago

And apparently there is at least one guy using it to draw illustrations[1] and explain how to use it with a tutorial[0]. Sadly the site seems to have been moved from another location and the obj files (the files tgif uses) did not survive the move. Only one file was transferred from another tutorial (in Japanese) about using Tgif with Gimp, most likely because it had a "wrong" extension (.html). It does open fine in a build of Tgif i just did though[2]. [0] http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/HowToTgifE.html http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/HowToTgifE.html [1] http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/galgaE.html http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/galgaE.html [2] https://i.imgur.com/Rs5eG3M.png https://i.imgur.com/Rs5eG3M.png

kbr2000 5y ago
Well found ;) I remember crossing this multiple times since the 90s while looking for Tgif-related info, but always in Japanese I think... and every time with marvel for his technique applied with both excellent software.