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In countries or areas with a cold climate the argument of energy conversion is less significant as most of the energy consumption is used for heat anyway. To t

In countries or areas with a cold climate the argument of energy conversion is less significant as most of the energy consumption is used for heat anyway. To those advocating that LED bulbs will last longer, you might find this interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

ars 15y ago
Less, maybe. But no place is cold for the entire year, the heat is generated in poor places (for example if you have cans all the heat is generated above the insulation, which is pointless). And electric heat is much less efficient than natural gas.
- sbierwagen 15y ago
  And electric heat is much less efficient than natural gas. Less efficient per dollar, depending on the cost of electricity and natural gas. Electric heat is, of course, 100% thermodynamically "efficient", since all the power eventually ends up as heat. With natural gas, you have to pipe the exhaust outside, and you lose a small amount of heat that way.
  - ars 15y ago
    Is there a reason you are ignoring transmission and generation losses? By your standard natural gas is also 100% thermodynamically efficient - all of it ends up as heat. Some of it outdoors, sure, but that is true for electric heat as well. Those thin electric lines outside your house get pretty hot.
    - sbierwagen 15y ago
      Is there a reason you are ignoring transmission and generation losses for natural gas? Methane isn't a frictionless fluid, it costs real money to pump it through pipelines. And, of course, you have to dig it out of the ground in the first place.
- coin 15y ago
  > And electric heat is much less efficient than natural gas Not this argument again. Keep in mind that not everyone has natural gas heating. In my part of the country (Pacific Northwest), many homes are electric heat only. So during the winter time it's a zero sum game.
  - ars 15y ago
    "during the winter time" being the operative word. Deep cold in winter is about 3 month, and few more months of lesser heat. But the light bulbs are used the entire year. Plus the light bulb is positioned suboptimally for heating - usually in the ceiling, or even worse in cans. And people use A/C in the summer, so add about 1/3 to the energy waste.

ars 15y ago

Less, maybe. But no place is cold for the entire year, the heat is generated in poor places (for example if you have cans all the heat is generated above the insulation, which is pointless). And electric heat is much less efficient than natural gas.

sbierwagen 15y ago
And electric heat is much less efficient than natural gas. Less efficient per dollar, depending on the cost of electricity and natural gas. Electric heat is, of course, 100% thermodynamically "efficient", since all the power eventually ends up as heat. With natural gas, you have to pipe the exhaust outside, and you lose a small amount of heat that way.
- ars 15y ago
  Is there a reason you are ignoring transmission and generation losses? By your standard natural gas is also 100% thermodynamically efficient - all of it ends up as heat. Some of it outdoors, sure, but that is true for electric heat as well. Those thin electric lines outside your house get pretty hot.
  - sbierwagen 15y ago
    Is there a reason you are ignoring transmission and generation losses for natural gas? Methane isn't a frictionless fluid, it costs real money to pump it through pipelines. And, of course, you have to dig it out of the ground in the first place.
coin 15y ago
> And electric heat is much less efficient than natural gas Not this argument again. Keep in mind that not everyone has natural gas heating. In my part of the country (Pacific Northwest), many homes are electric heat only. So during the winter time it's a zero sum game.
- ars 15y ago
  "during the winter time" being the operative word. Deep cold in winter is about 3 month, and few more months of lesser heat. But the light bulbs are used the entire year. Plus the light bulb is positioned suboptimally for heating - usually in the ceiling, or even worse in cans. And people use A/C in the summer, so add about 1/3 to the energy waste.