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> Furthermore, this cannabis usage is primarily motivated by a perceived enhancement to certain software development skills (such as brainstorming or getting in

> Furthermore, this cannabis usage is primarily motivated by a perceived enhancement to certain software development skills (such as brainstorming or getting into a programming zone) rather than medicinal reasons How can anyone who has tried it remotely believe this nonsense?

ModernMech 5y ago
Remember cannabis has a range of effects, so there is no singular "it" to be tried. You can try one strain of cannabis and it will knock you out. No problem solving happening there. Then you can try another strain and your mind is flooded with ideas. Both are called "cannabis" but it's not the same drug really.
- bicx 5y ago
  This has definitely been my experience. If you take an Indica gummy, you're most likely going to want to just lay on the couch and take a nap. On the other hand, I've had hybrids and sativas that will really lock me in on what I'm doing. I don't know if I could say I was more productive, but I definitely felt more focused.
0xdeadb00f 5y ago
It's great for brainstorming! In fact I get the wildest ideas for programs software and the like while high in bed.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
MissionInfl 5y ago
It's possible to have different reactions to the same drug :) As someone that is a heavy longtime user and recently diagnosed ADHD (there is a deep relationship between cannabis/substances and ADHD), I did find during the pandemic that smoking cannabis prior to writing software made it feel more productive. Given I couldn't prove that I was really more productive, and there are other costs, I decided against using it at least for my full time job. This is all to say, YMMV with cannabis or any psychoactive substance.
- __float 5y ago
  Also ADHD here. I find smoking a little helps significantly with turning off the distractions of Slack, email, reading interesting docs that cross my path. It's much easier to sit down, crank out a coding task, or jump into a deep debugging session. Not something I do often (or even occasionally), but I definitely don't think it's nonsense.
  - Eldt 5y ago
    Undiagnosed but suspected ADHD here. With a bit of THC and some electronic music I can bang code out for hours completely in the zone. It's like I build a great mental model on what I'm working on and become very immersed in it. I can't do it too often as managers need their meetings and updates but it's the most "zen" I ever feel.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      In my experience, being in any alternative state of mind, whether from caffeine or moderate amounts of alcohol, or even something not substance related- after working out, after a good night's sleep, after a bad night's sleep (the sweet spot is four hours), there is a sensation of productivity benefit, but I hesitate to claim there is actually productivity in every case. I think these altered states of mind help make it emotionally easier to cope with whatever the underlying cause is- possibly ADHD, possibly some variety of anxiety- and thus make it feel easier to work or engage in other difficult tasks. But cognitively? That's a whole different story.
- torbTurret 5y ago
  “Feel more productive” - just like all the drunk drivers who swear, “I actually drive better drunk!”
  - MissionInfl 5y ago
    Comparing "unfocused without cannabis" to "focused with cannabis" is a no brainer: I am definitely more productive with cannabis if it gets my butt in the chair and fingers typing on the keyboard. Comparing "focused without cannabis" to "focused with cannabis" is a different story, likely favoring the former as you are implying, but I think it is a bit less certain than driving drunk which is always dangerous.
pxc 5y ago
Different people work differently. I don't have the spare working memory necessary to be very productive on cannabis, except with respect to very menial tasks. But in college I knew people who studied for our calculus and physics exams stoned and did quite well. I'd be skeptical of a programmer who claimed cannabis made them more productive, especially at high doses, but if I could see that their work were consistent and good, I might believe them.
pvarangot 5y ago
I don't think it's nonsense, and it doesn't "work" the same way on everyones brain, that's like the whole reason psychiatry is a thing and research like this makes sense. If cannabis helps 10% of the population get into their "programming zone" all power to their nonsensical selves. Thinking "this drug makes me useless hence it should make the rest of the world also useless and any claims to the contrary are nonsense" it not only a blatant abuse of incomplete induction, but also kinda rude as it can make some people feel othered out just because of how their brain chemistry works.
mwattsun 5y ago
Absolutely, but I understand ymmv. I live in California where it's legal, so I decided to try it again. What I found is related to another article on HN right now: Step Away from Stack Overflow (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29659938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29659938) Sometimes I get lost in the programming equivalent of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. After some time with no progress in figuring out what sticks, it’s time to step away from that approach. I don't smoke daily. I use it as a tool because I found it helps me when I am semi-manic and just trying to get something to work. I step away from the keyboard and spend time thinking about how to architect my code so that it is easier to write and understand. I'm sure other people do that without smoking, but it's been a big help for me to do that more often.
systemvoltage 5y ago
I’ve tried weed, got addicted to it in college and have seen many people do the same. It made me lazy, completely unmotivated and unproductive. All I did was watch Anime and eat unhealthy foods. Contrary to the notion that you can think about great ideas and brainstorming - it’s amazing when you’re high. Write down those ideas and think about them when sober - I quickly realized how foolish they were. Concentration and programming is so far from my experience (and others that I know), I absolutely cannot believe this study. Couldn’t even stay motivated to go take a shower. There has to be a study that matches my experience. What’s going on?
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  I think your experience probably mimics most experience but years of hanging around people who smoked a lot showed me that it really does affect everyone differently. I hear people talk about it like it's a miracle drug for pain management, but for me it makes pain worse. I spend the entire time focused on every pain in my body. I knew a guy who concentrated on problems and coded better when he was stoned. Another who was an amazing chess player and had to smoke before he could play. Others who mixed records and played music while high and it enhanced their abilities. I tried to DJ techno once while high and it was a horrible trainwreck, and I can't focus more than 30 seconds at a time. I wrote a paper in university while high and it was the worst crap I ever wrote. Others swear by it. Many of my friends were super social and enjoyed going out and doing things. It always made me paranoid, overly self-critical, and I spent the whole time taking myself apart and feeling sad. So I didn't smoke it for almost 20 years. I tried it again recently now that it's legal here. Basically the same experience, even with "low THC, high CBD" strains. It really comes down to YMMV. And yes, I saw many people with the same experience as you, including a close relative. Unproductive, unmotivated, and low concentration, and chronic.
- officeplant 5y ago
  Sounds like my experience but I was using it at the time to cope with depression and anxiety about graduating from college amid the late 2000's financial crisis and other stresses you deal with as a lonely young adult. But I also never really stopped smoking and learned to use it to cope with a multitude of things like migraines and sleeplessness. In the end it often comes down to the person and their reactions to a substance more than the substance itself. I can smoke and melt on the couch or I can smoke and go for a long walk and decompress.
pm90 5y ago
YMMV. I’ve found that it helps to turn off distractions and let my brain get in the right state to play with the problem, to look at it from different angles… basically brainstorming. It’s pretty well known that marijuana helps to boost creativity; just look at all the music (and media in general) that’s been created by musicians high on pot. Arguably, it’s effects have not been studied as well as regular drugs so perhaps that’s needed to make more objective statements about its effects.
mediocregopher 5y ago
This has basically been my experience with it... the actual act of typing out code goes slower, but my ideas are more fluid and I'm able to "see" the whole picture more clearly. I think the slowness is more to do with having more ideas and noticing more details and possibilities than otherwise, so I have to spend more time sorting through all that.
jermaustin1 5y ago
Anyone who has tried it and doesn't use it, might experience it different than people who use it every day. I've known new users who couldn't walk straight after a bowl, and "pro" users who smoke 2+ grams a day and just keep on trucking. It comes down to tolerances, and probably also your mind adjusting to how it interprets the world under the influence of marijuana which is a mild psychedelic. Also going to add that the time-dilation effect of marijuana will definitely make you feel less productive but you will realize only 1/3 of the time you thought passed has passed. I'm sure this might play into some of the findings.
pietrovismara 5y ago
I tried and can confirm it works exactly like that for me.
sophacles 5y ago
I program high often. It's resulted in good code and bad code at proportions roughly equal to sober programming. The difference is generally in which code is good in each case. Tricky memory stuff, trying to deal with complex order of operations (threads, race conditions, etc) tends to go way better sober. House keeping like light refactors (im in rust these days so stuff like: oh that should be a result not an option, or using matches instead of ifs, genericize this struct), boiler plate stuff and cleaning up logs/error handling tends to go better when I'm high. But there are exceptions to both trends and I've done good deep work high and done plenty of good housekeeping sober. And of course since it's coding, i've (re)done plenty of bad work in both states too. Sad to know my experience is just nonsense. I guess I need to get in touch with the CFO and let him know the profit from the product I wrote is just a pipe dream.
whalesalad 5y ago
Eliminating chronic pain can have the net result of improving concentration and intelligence from baseline. I have absolutely had profoundly productive days while using THC. It's not black and white. Like any tool, it needs to be used responsibly.

ModernMech 5y ago

Remember cannabis has a range of effects, so there is no singular "it" to be tried. You can try one strain of cannabis and it will knock you out. No problem solving happening there. Then you can try another strain and your mind is flooded with ideas. Both are called "cannabis" but it's not the same drug really.

bicx 5y ago
This has definitely been my experience. If you take an Indica gummy, you're most likely going to want to just lay on the couch and take a nap. On the other hand, I've had hybrids and sativas that will really lock me in on what I'm doing. I don't know if I could say I was more productive, but I definitely felt more focused.

0xdeadb00f 5y ago

It's great for brainstorming! In fact I get the wildest ideas for programs software and the like while high in bed.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

MissionInfl 5y ago

It's possible to have different reactions to the same drug :) As someone that is a heavy longtime user and recently diagnosed ADHD (there is a deep relationship between cannabis/substances and ADHD), I did find during the pandemic that smoking cannabis prior to writing software made it feel more productive. Given I couldn't prove that I was really more productive, and there are other costs, I decided against using it at least for my full time job. This is all to say, YMMV with cannabis or any psychoactive substance.

__float 5y ago
Also ADHD here. I find smoking a little helps significantly with turning off the distractions of Slack, email, reading interesting docs that cross my path. It's much easier to sit down, crank out a coding task, or jump into a deep debugging session. Not something I do often (or even occasionally), but I definitely don't think it's nonsense.
- Eldt 5y ago
  Undiagnosed but suspected ADHD here. With a bit of THC and some electronic music I can bang code out for hours completely in the zone. It's like I build a great mental model on what I'm working on and become very immersed in it. I can't do it too often as managers need their meetings and updates but it's the most "zen" I ever feel.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    In my experience, being in any alternative state of mind, whether from caffeine or moderate amounts of alcohol, or even something not substance related- after working out, after a good night's sleep, after a bad night's sleep (the sweet spot is four hours), there is a sensation of productivity benefit, but I hesitate to claim there is actually productivity in every case. I think these altered states of mind help make it emotionally easier to cope with whatever the underlying cause is- possibly ADHD, possibly some variety of anxiety- and thus make it feel easier to work or engage in other difficult tasks. But cognitively? That's a whole different story.
torbTurret 5y ago
“Feel more productive” - just like all the drunk drivers who swear, “I actually drive better drunk!”
- MissionInfl 5y ago
  Comparing "unfocused without cannabis" to "focused with cannabis" is a no brainer: I am definitely more productive with cannabis if it gets my butt in the chair and fingers typing on the keyboard. Comparing "focused without cannabis" to "focused with cannabis" is a different story, likely favoring the former as you are implying, but I think it is a bit less certain than driving drunk which is always dangerous.

pxc 5y ago

Different people work differently. I don't have the spare working memory necessary to be very productive on cannabis, except with respect to very menial tasks. But in college I knew people who studied for our calculus and physics exams stoned and did quite well. I'd be skeptical of a programmer who claimed cannabis made them more productive, especially at high doses, but if I could see that their work were consistent and good, I might believe them.

pvarangot 5y ago

I don't think it's nonsense, and it doesn't "work" the same way on everyones brain, that's like the whole reason psychiatry is a thing and research like this makes sense. If cannabis helps 10% of the population get into their "programming zone" all power to their nonsensical selves. Thinking "this drug makes me useless hence it should make the rest of the world also useless and any claims to the contrary are nonsense" it not only a blatant abuse of incomplete induction, but also kinda rude as it can make some people feel othered out just because of how their brain chemistry works.

mwattsun 5y ago

Absolutely, but I understand ymmv. I live in California where it's legal, so I decided to try it again. What I found is related to another article on HN right now: Step Away from Stack Overflow (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29659938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29659938) Sometimes I get lost in the programming equivalent of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. After some time with no progress in figuring out what sticks, it’s time to step away from that approach. I don't smoke daily. I use it as a tool because I found it helps me when I am semi-manic and just trying to get something to work. I step away from the keyboard and spend time thinking about how to architect my code so that it is easier to write and understand. I'm sure other people do that without smoking, but it's been a big help for me to do that more often.

systemvoltage 5y ago

I’ve tried weed, got addicted to it in college and have seen many people do the same. It made me lazy, completely unmotivated and unproductive. All I did was watch Anime and eat unhealthy foods. Contrary to the notion that you can think about great ideas and brainstorming - it’s amazing when you’re high. Write down those ideas and think about them when sober - I quickly realized how foolish they were. Concentration and programming is so far from my experience (and others that I know), I absolutely cannot believe this study. Couldn’t even stay motivated to go take a shower. There has to be a study that matches my experience. What’s going on?

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
I think your experience probably mimics most experience but years of hanging around people who smoked a lot showed me that it really does affect everyone differently. I hear people talk about it like it's a miracle drug for pain management, but for me it makes pain worse. I spend the entire time focused on every pain in my body. I knew a guy who concentrated on problems and coded better when he was stoned. Another who was an amazing chess player and had to smoke before he could play. Others who mixed records and played music while high and it enhanced their abilities. I tried to DJ techno once while high and it was a horrible trainwreck, and I can't focus more than 30 seconds at a time. I wrote a paper in university while high and it was the worst crap I ever wrote. Others swear by it. Many of my friends were super social and enjoyed going out and doing things. It always made me paranoid, overly self-critical, and I spent the whole time taking myself apart and feeling sad. So I didn't smoke it for almost 20 years. I tried it again recently now that it's legal here. Basically the same experience, even with "low THC, high CBD" strains. It really comes down to YMMV. And yes, I saw many people with the same experience as you, including a close relative. Unproductive, unmotivated, and low concentration, and chronic.
officeplant 5y ago
Sounds like my experience but I was using it at the time to cope with depression and anxiety about graduating from college amid the late 2000's financial crisis and other stresses you deal with as a lonely young adult. But I also never really stopped smoking and learned to use it to cope with a multitude of things like migraines and sleeplessness. In the end it often comes down to the person and their reactions to a substance more than the substance itself. I can smoke and melt on the couch or I can smoke and go for a long walk and decompress.

pm90 5y ago

YMMV. I’ve found that it helps to turn off distractions and let my brain get in the right state to play with the problem, to look at it from different angles… basically brainstorming. It’s pretty well known that marijuana helps to boost creativity; just look at all the music (and media in general) that’s been created by musicians high on pot. Arguably, it’s effects have not been studied as well as regular drugs so perhaps that’s needed to make more objective statements about its effects.

mediocregopher 5y ago

This has basically been my experience with it... the actual act of typing out code goes slower, but my ideas are more fluid and I'm able to "see" the whole picture more clearly. I think the slowness is more to do with having more ideas and noticing more details and possibilities than otherwise, so I have to spend more time sorting through all that.

jermaustin1 5y ago

Anyone who has tried it and doesn't use it, might experience it different than people who use it every day. I've known new users who couldn't walk straight after a bowl, and "pro" users who smoke 2+ grams a day and just keep on trucking. It comes down to tolerances, and probably also your mind adjusting to how it interprets the world under the influence of marijuana which is a mild psychedelic. Also going to add that the time-dilation effect of marijuana will definitely make you feel less productive but you will realize only 1/3 of the time you thought passed has passed. I'm sure this might play into some of the findings.

pietrovismara 5y ago

I tried and can confirm it works exactly like that for me.

sophacles 5y ago

I program high often. It's resulted in good code and bad code at proportions roughly equal to sober programming. The difference is generally in which code is good in each case. Tricky memory stuff, trying to deal with complex order of operations (threads, race conditions, etc) tends to go way better sober. House keeping like light refactors (im in rust these days so stuff like: oh that should be a result not an option, or using matches instead of ifs, genericize this struct), boiler plate stuff and cleaning up logs/error handling tends to go better when I'm high. But there are exceptions to both trends and I've done good deep work high and done plenty of good housekeeping sober. And of course since it's coding, i've (re)done plenty of bad work in both states too. Sad to know my experience is just nonsense. I guess I need to get in touch with the CFO and let him know the profit from the product I wrote is just a pipe dream.

whalesalad 5y ago

Eliminating chronic pain can have the net result of improving concentration and intelligence from baseline. I have absolutely had profoundly productive days while using THC. It's not black and white. Like any tool, it needs to be used responsibly.