7 ms·

Once you are already in prison it's hard to say whether you are forced to do it or not. It's not like you have a lot of employers and professions to choose from

Once you are already in prison it's hard to say whether you are forced to do it or not. It's not like you have a lot of employers and professions to choose from. And if the incentives include things like easier to get parole then refusing to participate would mean more time served. It'd be pretty hard to prove some labor is not "forced" in a prison setting.

Dylan16807 5y ago
> And if the incentives include things like easier to get parole then refusing to participate would mean more time served. So what? That's just serving the original sentence. That doesn't sound forced to me. Is it forced labor when someone chooses to take a community service option instead of being locked up?
- breakfastduck 5y ago
  Yes of course it is. You're being forced to do it or end up in prison. How is that not forced? It's essentially a choice between 1 option at that point.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    You earned the prison. Is it somehow better to remove the option and just lock you up? Negative prison time, applied to a legitimate sentence, should never count as forcing.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      You pretend to be unaware of false arrest, fabricated evidence, bad representation, and over-sentencing of underclass people. US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        I don't pretend to be unaware of that. I think it's a separate problem. Like, okay, we say that anyone improperly imprisoned is being forced into labor. What about everyone else? The argument above was that it clearly is forced labor, even when your sentence is completely valid. I disagree with that. > US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly. It's a mix of things. Even if you fixed all the bias in the system, you could still have a high incarceration rate with harsh but not inherently unjust laws.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        Nobody has a legitimate reason to want a high incarceration rate. The only reason to have a higher incarceration rate than any other country in the whole world is, specifically, because you want to have your underclass ready to hand for slave labor. Or, generally, to repress them. If you are relying on threat of incarceration to discourage criminal behavior, having the highest such rate in the world is reliable evidence that your method is failing to achieve that aim. Other countries are demonstrating better methods you could learn from. If you wanted to, that is.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        I never said anything about wanting a high incarceration rate. There can be other reasons for harsh laws. Don't be so weirdly absolute. If a country does something wrong that doesn't mean it necessarily has the one specific motivation you're mad at and no other.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        There are many motivations for evil action. They don't contradict, they add. Having more does not make it less evil.
        Dylan16807 5y ago

Dylan16807 5y ago

> And if the incentives include things like easier to get parole then refusing to participate would mean more time served. So what? That's just serving the original sentence. That doesn't sound forced to me. Is it forced labor when someone chooses to take a community service option instead of being locked up?

breakfastduck 5y ago
Yes of course it is. You're being forced to do it or end up in prison. How is that not forced? It's essentially a choice between 1 option at that point.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  You earned the prison. Is it somehow better to remove the option and just lock you up? Negative prison time, applied to a legitimate sentence, should never count as forcing.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    You pretend to be unaware of false arrest, fabricated evidence, bad representation, and over-sentencing of underclass people. US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      I don't pretend to be unaware of that. I think it's a separate problem. Like, okay, we say that anyone improperly imprisoned is being forced into labor. What about everyone else? The argument above was that it clearly is forced labor, even when your sentence is completely valid. I disagree with that. > US citizens are not uniquely criminal, but US incarceration rate is by far highest in the world. You don't get there justly. It's a mix of things. Even if you fixed all the bias in the system, you could still have a high incarceration rate with harsh but not inherently unjust laws.
      - ncmncm 5y ago
        Nobody has a legitimate reason to want a high incarceration rate. The only reason to have a higher incarceration rate than any other country in the whole world is, specifically, because you want to have your underclass ready to hand for slave labor. Or, generally, to repress them. If you are relying on threat of incarceration to discourage criminal behavior, having the highest such rate in the world is reliable evidence that your method is failing to achieve that aim. Other countries are demonstrating better methods you could learn from. If you wanted to, that is.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        I never said anything about wanting a high incarceration rate. There can be other reasons for harsh laws. Don't be so weirdly absolute. If a country does something wrong that doesn't mean it necessarily has the one specific motivation you're mad at and no other.
        ncmncm 5y ago
        There are many motivations for evil action. They don't contradict, they add. Having more does not make it less evil.
        Dylan16807 5y ago