7 ms·

Being a Chinese citizen right now means: - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) - You cannot g

Being a Chinese citizen right now means: - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) - You cannot go beyond China's intranet - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally - You have very little rights as LGBT - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power - You are constantly subjugated to random mass testing - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship 终究怀揣的不安，是愈来愈近的丧钟声

schleck8 5y ago
The issues will start arising at some point. Things like banning porn simply don't work unless substituted. People have already turned to amateur recordings instead. That's things the elderly rulers don't want to or can't understand. Ultimate control is not possible with human beings, especially in the 21st century.
star-trek-fleet 5y ago
None of these can be attributed to authoritarian, or some form of CCP brutality, when moderate amount of scrutiny is applied ... > - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) This is of course because of China's CVOID policy, which is 0 tolerance. That's a rational decision of China's high-density population, and manufacturing-based economy. I do not think it's inherent anti-human-rights, as the death count is fractional to open-co-existence policy. Life itself is a human right, and probably the most precious one. > - You cannot go beyond China's intranet VPNs are legal in China. You just need to be technically-sophisticated enough to find the correct VPNs, and make sure it falls in the boundary of Chinese law. > - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks This is just not true... You can use various services to transfer money out. The only issue is that they are subject to certain limitations, which are far more restrictive than US. But again, US dominates world financial system, there is a view that financial imperialism is a key part of US capitalist exploiting Chinese workers. Thus the financial limitation. I doubt that anyone other than the rob-barrons are affected by this. I personally know a lot of Crypto super riches, trust me, they are absolutely a net negative force in society. > - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally You can. VPN to netflix. And a lot of pirated content. They were just not allowed to go through the official channel. Of course, CCP is wrong here. But let's not paint a picture that Chinese people are sheeps. > - You have very little rights as LGBT Not sure what you are talking about. LGBT is not discriminated officially in any form in the CHinese society. Society still holds stigma over these people. One primary reason is that these groups are associated with higher chance of sexually-transmitted diseases. And dont assume me a CCP associate, I have a good friend who is gay. He is my college friend. He is pretty happy. > - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat This is probably what forced upon by the private firms. These are punished heavily by CCP recently. Jack Ma and Alibaba are the defender of 996... > - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list This is not true. I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China. None of the 50 people ever had any sign of being bothered. I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China. If that's true, China either already have an AGI, or what we bought everyone are not actually made in China, because there are simply not enough cheap labor to produce them in the first place, and most of them are employed in watching others. > - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) 1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared... First, the number of billionaires are unknown. Chinese society had a tradition of the rich become victims during the terminal phase of the dynasty. So the rich is very well aware of this fact, and they hide. Do you know that Mr. Deng Xiaoping's son is astronomically rich, but you'll never see anywhere his net worth is published? Second, please give a citation... To engage this discussion is putting legitimacy on this ridiculous claim... > - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power Come on... This becomes ridiculous... Gender equality in China is pretty high. Ranked 38th out of 157 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China I mean it's not spectacular, but your statement is just outlandish... > - You are constantly subjugated to idiotic mass testing/lockdown What do you mean? I said a lot of bad words about CCP. I was not distant by my family or friends... > - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship If you read western media, then these are what they said. But these are not true according to what I hear from my friends and family.
- theunspoken 5y ago
- masterof0 5y ago
  This is an US site, most people here believe that they hear from the media, and is understandable, the same way most Chinese people believe that they see in CCTV. I get people in China asking if I'm safe, or if my house was assaulted by antifa. I think people if they are really interested of what is happening in either country should do their research, instead of parroting what they hear in Youtube. But yeah, you will get downvoted , so will I. ;)
  - clove 5y ago
    Well said. But the major problem is vetting the source of your research. Even academic studies are subject to bias or are simply statistical outliers (e.g., type 2 errors). You can only go so far down the rabbit hole of research before you're wasting time. It's a lot like signal detection theory: Where do you strike the balance between effort and accuracy in research?
    - masterof0 5y ago
      Indeed, maybe my phrasing was wrong, but I feel nationalism only creates feeds xenophobia, because is never "X government", is always "the chinese", "the russians" , "insert_the_current_buggy_man_here"... I also understand that there is no chance this will ever change.
- abmrolp 5y ago
- matt123456789 5y ago
  > I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China. Maybe you do, but do you discuss how millions of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province were (are?) detained in concentration camps [0] and forced to provide quarter to government agents in their own homes under a dehumanizing “big brother” program [1]? Or how the CCP forced Uighurs to surgically implant IUDs and undergo forced abortion and sterilization procedures [2]? That would probably get you on the CCP’s radar. Don’t pretend like there’s any semblance of open discussion about truly controversial issues. > I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China. The “constantly watched” bit is a total strawman. Nobody is implying that all Chinese citizens are constantly watched by CCP thugs. All that is needed is a search engine on top of indexed WeChat message contents to help direct a limited number of investigations against political dissidents who may threaten the CCP’s grip on power - or as they refer to it, “stability”. [0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270014 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270014 Selected quote: “Every former camp detainee Amnesty interviewed in the report recounted cruel and degrading treatment, including torture. The report, released Thursday, is based on interviews with 108 people, including 55 camp survivors and several government cadres who worked in the camps.” Yes, it happened. Your most recent comment as of right now attempts to cast doubt on this fact. [1]: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/08/asia/china-xinjiang-ethnic-unity-intl-hnk-dst/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/08/asia/china-xinjiang-ethni... Selected quote: “Her four "guests" are Chinese government cadres who lived in her home for 10 days every month for two years before her family fled, she said.” Think about what that would be like. It’s as horrible as it is effective, and it’s partly why the Third Amendment to the US Constitution exists. [2]: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we... Selected quote: “But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show.” Think about what it would be like for your government to show up at your door, handcuff you, take you to a hospital, anesthetize you, and surgically remove your ability to procreate. That’s what the CCP does to its own people.
IsThisYou 5y ago
> (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) How did that happen? Iirc, according to Hurun Report 10 years ago, some 80% of the upper class Chinese had an escape plan ready. You'd think, as a billionaire they have a plane waiting for them 24/7 to get out of the country. > You cannot travel abroad In the border with Vietnam, at night you can cross the border for 5 yuan on one of the smuggler boats. > You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power Only country in the world with more female suicides than male suicides. Also, no recourse if CCP thugs steal your stuff. Guy I knew had his Ferrari stolen. Couldn't do anything because the thief was a local party functionary's son.
- hulahoof 5y ago
  > You'd think, as a billionaire they have a plane waiting for them 24/7 to get out of the country. I guess disappeared could mean they are on a beach somewhere under an alias, but I don't think we can assume that for all of them
nebula8804 5y ago
>You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) Really? What accounts for all the Chinese tourists visiting Europe/UK/USA? I have a friend who runs a hostel in Edinburgh and the majority of her guests are Chinese so much so that they have had to print signs in Mandarin asking people to abide by certain rules. >You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks This must not be enforced that severely given how much capital has flowed into other countries real estate market. In fact this is a common loophole used to get US citizenship. (invest 500k and you can get a green card).
- simonh 5y ago
  The policy changed pretty recently, a friend of mine married to a Chinese citizen, and has been living there for almost a decade. They left in 2019 because the attitude to foreigners working in China, and Chinese going abroad has undergone a sea change. There are strict controls on capital flows, it's much harder to get work or visit visas for Chinese going abroad, many Chinese working abroad have been put under pressure to go back. They left before him working there got untenable, and it got too hard for his wife to leave. This has been masked over the last 2 years by the pandemic, but it started a few years before.
  - masterof0 5y ago
    I literally transfer money back and forth almost every week. So, not true. Regular international wire transfer work just fine, and most major banks allow it. Even foreigners can open such accounts. I have one.
    - simonh 5y ago
      It's still possible to transfer money for businesses. China is still heavily integrated into the global economy, so they're not going to cut the lines completely, but my family and friends over there who are Chinese citizens used to do direct bank transfers internationally from their personal current accounts in China and now they can't.
masterof0 5y ago
> You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks. Not true. > You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) Also not true. FuErDais are praise on TV, movies, etc... Crazy Rich Asians , the movie , was a huge hit in China for example, etc... Money and superficiality have always being huge in China (even to get married, you need to buy a house , a car, and give the girl's family money (CaiLi)). > You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat Highly depends on where you work. But is not standarized, and there have been recently a huge push back from the goverment about this. > You cannot go beyond China's intranet Literally that's what VPNs are for, many chinese companies offer VPN services to mainland users, etc. All other points are more or less right. Also, p*rn is illegal in most places. I wouldn't live there, but posting lies here wont help anyone.
- Cederfjard 5y ago
  What do you mean when you say porn is illegal in most places?
  - masterof0 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_laws_by_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_laws_by_region
    - Cederfjard 5y ago
      Fair enough, I haven’t figured out the exact breakdown from that link, although it seems fairly equally split to me. Still, that map lends credence to my initial gut feeling, that defending China’s porn ban to someone with a seemingly Western perspective by saying it’s banned in a lot of other places too probably isn’t very effective - they most likely feel the same about these laws where they exist in the rest of Asia, Eastern Europe and in Africa, too. Presumably they’re comparing China to Western Europe and the US here.
      - masterof0 5y ago
forgotmyoldname 5y ago
I used to think China was some North Korean-style hellscape and hated the country. Then I had a flight transfer through China and decided to take a couple days there just to see how bad it was. Ended up realizing most internet comments and news articles are posted by people who are absolutely obsessed with China and only get their information through seventh-hand sources--it's that insanely distorted. Left loving the country because everything was so contrary to my conditioned expectations and went back for a few more trips. Pushing a super hard anti-anything narrative in this age is bound to backfire, because finding information contrary to it isn't hard.
- lifeformed 5y ago
  Everyday life is generally okay there, and it's not hard to have a great time as a tourist there. The problems are if you are unhappy with the status quo and are a dissenter. You can flourish there, relatively, if you follow the rules. But if you get on the government's bad side you will be quashed.
- chunghuaming 5y ago
  This sounds like a paid endorsement sponsored by CCP. No real refutes, just brush air away by hand. You visited a few times huh? I was born and lived there for 30 years.
  - forgotmyoldname 5y ago
    It's really wild that people are so crazed that they think everyone is a paid shill. There's medical terminology to describe people who think everything is a grand conspiracy and make unfalsifiable claims about anyone who opposes them. But good luck with that issue, dude. Maybe you should try visiting countries sometime. Anyone can claim to have lived in a country for 30 years. :)
    - shukantpal 5y ago
      > But good luck with that issue, dude. Maybe you should try visiting countries sometime. Anyone can claim to have lived in a country for 30 years. :) Maybe you should visit the country. Anyone can make a claim they stayed there for a few days and only visited the elite, rich parts of the country.

schleck8 5y ago

The issues will start arising at some point. Things like banning porn simply don't work unless substituted. People have already turned to amateur recordings instead. That's things the elderly rulers don't want to or can't understand. Ultimate control is not possible with human beings, especially in the 21st century.

star-trek-fleet 5y ago

None of these can be attributed to authoritarian, or some form of CCP brutality, when moderate amount of scrutiny is applied ... > - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) This is of course because of China's CVOID policy, which is 0 tolerance. That's a rational decision of China's high-density population, and manufacturing-based economy. I do not think it's inherent anti-human-rights, as the death count is fractional to open-co-existence policy. Life itself is a human right, and probably the most precious one. > - You cannot go beyond China's intranet VPNs are legal in China. You just need to be technically-sophisticated enough to find the correct VPNs, and make sure it falls in the boundary of Chinese law. > - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks This is just not true... You can use various services to transfer money out. The only issue is that they are subject to certain limitations, which are far more restrictive than US. But again, US dominates world financial system, there is a view that financial imperialism is a key part of US capitalist exploiting Chinese workers. Thus the financial limitation. I doubt that anyone other than the rob-barrons are affected by this. I personally know a lot of Crypto super riches, trust me, they are absolutely a net negative force in society. > - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally You can. VPN to netflix. And a lot of pirated content. They were just not allowed to go through the official channel. Of course, CCP is wrong here. But let's not paint a picture that Chinese people are sheeps. > - You have very little rights as LGBT Not sure what you are talking about. LGBT is not discriminated officially in any form in the CHinese society. Society still holds stigma over these people. One primary reason is that these groups are associated with higher chance of sexually-transmitted diseases. And dont assume me a CCP associate, I have a good friend who is gay. He is my college friend. He is pretty happy. > - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat This is probably what forced upon by the private firms. These are punished heavily by CCP recently. Jack Ma and Alibaba are the defender of 996... > - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list This is not true. I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China. None of the 50 people ever had any sign of being bothered. I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China. If that's true, China either already have an AGI, or what we bought everyone are not actually made in China, because there are simply not enough cheap labor to produce them in the first place, and most of them are employed in watching others. > - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) 1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared... First, the number of billionaires are unknown. Chinese society had a tradition of the rich become victims during the terminal phase of the dynasty. So the rich is very well aware of this fact, and they hide. Do you know that Mr. Deng Xiaoping's son is astronomically rich, but you'll never see anywhere his net worth is published? Second, please give a citation... To engage this discussion is putting legitimacy on this ridiculous claim... > - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power Come on... This becomes ridiculous... Gender equality in China is pretty high. Ranked 38th out of 157 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China I mean it's not spectacular, but your statement is just outlandish... > - You are constantly subjugated to idiotic mass testing/lockdown What do you mean? I said a lot of bad words about CCP. I was not distant by my family or friends... > - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship If you read western media, then these are what they said. But these are not true according to what I hear from my friends and family.

theunspoken 5y ago
masterof0 5y ago
This is an US site, most people here believe that they hear from the media, and is understandable, the same way most Chinese people believe that they see in CCTV. I get people in China asking if I'm safe, or if my house was assaulted by antifa. I think people if they are really interested of what is happening in either country should do their research, instead of parroting what they hear in Youtube. But yeah, you will get downvoted , so will I. ;)
- clove 5y ago
  Well said. But the major problem is vetting the source of your research. Even academic studies are subject to bias or are simply statistical outliers (e.g., type 2 errors). You can only go so far down the rabbit hole of research before you're wasting time. It's a lot like signal detection theory: Where do you strike the balance between effort and accuracy in research?
  - masterof0 5y ago
    Indeed, maybe my phrasing was wrong, but I feel nationalism only creates feeds xenophobia, because is never "X government", is always "the chinese", "the russians" , "insert_the_current_buggy_man_here"... I also understand that there is no chance this will ever change.
abmrolp 5y ago
matt123456789 5y ago
> I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China. Maybe you do, but do you discuss how millions of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province were (are?) detained in concentration camps [0] and forced to provide quarter to government agents in their own homes under a dehumanizing “big brother” program [1]? Or how the CCP forced Uighurs to surgically implant IUDs and undergo forced abortion and sterilization procedures [2]? That would probably get you on the CCP’s radar. Don’t pretend like there’s any semblance of open discussion about truly controversial issues. > I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China. The “constantly watched” bit is a total strawman. Nobody is implying that all Chinese citizens are constantly watched by CCP thugs. All that is needed is a search engine on top of indexed WeChat message contents to help direct a limited number of investigations against political dissidents who may threaten the CCP’s grip on power - or as they refer to it, “stability”. [0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270014 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270014 Selected quote: “Every former camp detainee Amnesty interviewed in the report recounted cruel and degrading treatment, including torture. The report, released Thursday, is based on interviews with 108 people, including 55 camp survivors and several government cadres who worked in the camps.” Yes, it happened. Your most recent comment as of right now attempts to cast doubt on this fact. [1]: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/08/asia/china-xinjiang-ethnic-unity-intl-hnk-dst/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/08/asia/china-xinjiang-ethni... Selected quote: “Her four "guests" are Chinese government cadres who lived in her home for 10 days every month for two years before her family fled, she said.” Think about what that would be like. It’s as horrible as it is effective, and it’s partly why the Third Amendment to the US Constitution exists. [2]: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we... Selected quote: “But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show.” Think about what it would be like for your government to show up at your door, handcuff you, take you to a hospital, anesthetize you, and surgically remove your ability to procreate. That’s what the CCP does to its own people.

IsThisYou 5y ago

> (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) How did that happen? Iirc, according to Hurun Report 10 years ago, some 80% of the upper class Chinese had an escape plan ready. You'd think, as a billionaire they have a plane waiting for them 24/7 to get out of the country. > You cannot travel abroad In the border with Vietnam, at night you can cross the border for 5 yuan on one of the smuggler boats. > You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power Only country in the world with more female suicides than male suicides. Also, no recourse if CCP thugs steal your stuff. Guy I knew had his Ferrari stolen. Couldn't do anything because the thief was a local party functionary's son.

hulahoof 5y ago
> You'd think, as a billionaire they have a plane waiting for them 24/7 to get out of the country. I guess disappeared could mean they are on a beach somewhere under an alias, but I don't think we can assume that for all of them

nebula8804 5y ago

>You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad) Really? What accounts for all the Chinese tourists visiting Europe/UK/USA? I have a friend who runs a hostel in Edinburgh and the majority of her guests are Chinese so much so that they have had to print signs in Mandarin asking people to abide by certain rules. >You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks This must not be enforced that severely given how much capital has flowed into other countries real estate market. In fact this is a common loophole used to get US citizenship. (invest 500k and you can get a green card).

simonh 5y ago
The policy changed pretty recently, a friend of mine married to a Chinese citizen, and has been living there for almost a decade. They left in 2019 because the attitude to foreigners working in China, and Chinese going abroad has undergone a sea change. There are strict controls on capital flows, it's much harder to get work or visit visas for Chinese going abroad, many Chinese working abroad have been put under pressure to go back. They left before him working there got untenable, and it got too hard for his wife to leave. This has been masked over the last 2 years by the pandemic, but it started a few years before.
- masterof0 5y ago
  I literally transfer money back and forth almost every week. So, not true. Regular international wire transfer work just fine, and most major banks allow it. Even foreigners can open such accounts. I have one.
  - simonh 5y ago
    It's still possible to transfer money for businesses. China is still heavily integrated into the global economy, so they're not going to cut the lines completely, but my family and friends over there who are Chinese citizens used to do direct bank transfers internationally from their personal current accounts in China and now they can't.

masterof0 5y ago

> You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks. Not true. > You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) Also not true. FuErDais are praise on TV, movies, etc... Crazy Rich Asians , the movie , was a huge hit in China for example, etc... Money and superficiality have always being huge in China (even to get married, you need to buy a house , a car, and give the girl's family money (CaiLi)). > You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat Highly depends on where you work. But is not standarized, and there have been recently a huge push back from the goverment about this. > You cannot go beyond China's intranet Literally that's what VPNs are for, many chinese companies offer VPN services to mainland users, etc. All other points are more or less right. Also, p*rn is illegal in most places. I wouldn't live there, but posting lies here wont help anyone.

Cederfjard 5y ago
What do you mean when you say porn is illegal in most places?
- masterof0 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_laws_by_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_laws_by_region
  - Cederfjard 5y ago
    Fair enough, I haven’t figured out the exact breakdown from that link, although it seems fairly equally split to me. Still, that map lends credence to my initial gut feeling, that defending China’s porn ban to someone with a seemingly Western perspective by saying it’s banned in a lot of other places too probably isn’t very effective - they most likely feel the same about these laws where they exist in the rest of Asia, Eastern Europe and in Africa, too. Presumably they’re comparing China to Western Europe and the US here.
    - masterof0 5y ago

forgotmyoldname 5y ago

I used to think China was some North Korean-style hellscape and hated the country. Then I had a flight transfer through China and decided to take a couple days there just to see how bad it was. Ended up realizing most internet comments and news articles are posted by people who are absolutely obsessed with China and only get their information through seventh-hand sources--it's that insanely distorted. Left loving the country because everything was so contrary to my conditioned expectations and went back for a few more trips. Pushing a super hard anti-anything narrative in this age is bound to backfire, because finding information contrary to it isn't hard.

lifeformed 5y ago
Everyday life is generally okay there, and it's not hard to have a great time as a tourist there. The problems are if you are unhappy with the status quo and are a dissenter. You can flourish there, relatively, if you follow the rules. But if you get on the government's bad side you will be quashed.
chunghuaming 5y ago
This sounds like a paid endorsement sponsored by CCP. No real refutes, just brush air away by hand. You visited a few times huh? I was born and lived there for 30 years.
- forgotmyoldname 5y ago
  It's really wild that people are so crazed that they think everyone is a paid shill. There's medical terminology to describe people who think everything is a grand conspiracy and make unfalsifiable claims about anyone who opposes them. But good luck with that issue, dude. Maybe you should try visiting countries sometime. Anyone can claim to have lived in a country for 30 years. :)
  - shukantpal 5y ago
    > But good luck with that issue, dude. Maybe you should try visiting countries sometime. Anyone can claim to have lived in a country for 30 years. :) Maybe you should visit the country. Anyone can make a claim they stayed there for a few days and only visited the elite, rich parts of the country.