6 ms·

Starting at Win7 the telemetry and invasive advertising ramped up to the point where I don't feel I can customize the Desktop to what I want without heavy tweak

by juusto 5y ago

Starting at Win7 the telemetry and invasive advertising ramped up to the point where I don't feel I can customize the Desktop to what I want without heavy tweaking. And if that amount of tweaking is necessary why not go Linux instead. So got rid of my Win10 install, went with KDE Neon+Steam. And now I wonder what took me so long. I haven't tested my entire Steam library yet but my top 10 games run perfectly, some times with some changes to the Proton version but beyond that even workshop mods are available. I am seriously impressed and can't imagine myself going back at all. If only Adobe would release their software in Linux, then, I could ditch MacOS too.

lambdaba 5y ago
Aren't Wine / some virtualization like VirtualBox seamless mode viable options?
- Le_Dook 5y ago
  Some software are hit and miss, or just fail to work on wine. Big one for a lot of people is the Affinity suite.
- juusto 5y ago
  From what I saw only old versions of the software I need run and when they run lots of little things are missing. I would call software with that amount of quirks and performance issues pre-alpha quality. So, I can use my MacBook for Adobe for now until they come to their senses.
- tobz1000 5y ago
  I've had no luck with Photoshop in Wine or VB seamless mode (PS's custom window decorators are probably the reason for the latter). A full-desktop Windows VM is still good enough with guest extensions though, so I can easily resize the whole Windows desktop with just a maximised PS window inside.
- underscore_ku 5y ago
  WINE is an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator"
- kevingadd 5y ago
  VirtualBox is a horrible way to run games of any kind. The driver support for graphics is miserable.
- em3rgent0rdr 5y ago
  Proton is a fork of Wine. Just more tailored towards steam games.
  - brnt 5y ago
    actually, proton is two things: wine+dxvk. dxvk is a windows (!) program that translates directx to vulkan. between the two of them theyre all thats needed to run games. proton is in addition funded and tested thoroughly by a critical audience, linux gamers ;)
raxxorrax 5y ago
The way that Blender is developing they could get into trouble. Might not yet fit perfectly into the toolchain of many artists, but I guess it will make ground in a professional setting. I haven't missed photoshop either, I only paint and model as a hobby though.
- buovjaga 5y ago
  Adobe is sponsoring Blender at the second-highest level: https://fund.blender.org/ https://fund.blender.org/ So they don't seem very worried about it yet :)
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    That is standard business practice by now if you want to influence competition or use it to further your own goals. MS in Linux Foundation, US in Wuhan Labs, etc. pp.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
christophilus 5y ago
Been running Fedora + Steam for over a year, now. The experience has been great. It’s hard to imagine going back. I do miss Mac hardware, though. My 1.5 year old Dell XPS already has a bad key, and a faulty WiFi card. It’s complete garbage. My next laptop will be the Framework 15” 4K option whenever they make one…
- amcoastal 5y ago
  I like how your first thing when complaining about a non-Mac laptop is a complaint about the keyboard. Oh, you sweet summer child :)
  - thathndude 5y ago
    Unpopular opinion: I miss my butterfly keyboard. I never had any of the flaky-key issues. And I loved the crisp feel of the keys. I don’t need key travel. I like the futuristic (and unrealistic) idea of typing on glass. In some ways, the butterfly was just a step away from that, but with the slightest bit of physical feedback. At the least, I definitely did not loathe the butterfly like mini.
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      Same here. The butterfly felt much better than the Magic Keyboard. I also liked the way it sounded. What I didn't like is that it went bad after 2 years of not very heavy use (I have an external keyboard). If Apple could make a reliable butterfly keyboard, I'd love to have it. OTOH, I appreciate the new ones having a keyboard that feel closer to the pre-Magic ones (same feel as the pre-butterfly laptops). It's OK, if not a revolution.
  - christophilus 5y ago
    I've had plenty of Macs, including the butterfly keyboard (which did go bad on me). But. It took that butterfly keyboard longer to go bad than the Dell XPS. The Dell is honestly a steaming pile of crap.
- throwaway17_17 5y ago
smusamashah 5y ago
How is the performance of games? What I understand is that proton is a layer/adapter to run windows games and should create a FPS hit. Or do you get the same performance of running on widows?
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  most games the performance hit is going to be not noticeable when to some, mildly annoying to others, and totally unacceptable to o a few. Like if you were trying to be competitive in a modern AAA fps, prolly won’t be ok. But big non twitch 3d games are still very good!
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    > But big non twitch 3d games are still very good! What do you mean?
    - kevingadd 5y ago
      'twitch' in games typically means latency-sensitive, like a competitive FPS where being 10ms faster to shoot than the other guy means you win the round. Many games can handle 100ms of latency no problem, so running at 50fps instead of 60fps is no big deal. On consoles those games typically run at 30fps to begin with, which is at minimum 16ms more latency than playing at 60fps on a linux or windows PC.
- juusto 5y ago
  Very good, I am not a 4k-120fps-highest-detail kind of gamer so anything over 60fps at 1440p with high detail is quite enough for me. I run RDR2, Fallout 4, TW series, and some indie stuff at those specs and I have no problems even with mods. I see no difference from Windows but, ofc, you mileage may vary depending on your HW and what you want from your games.
- washadjeffmad 5y ago
  Modern games can be run on Linux three ways: with native Linux builds, with Proton/dxvk/d3dvk or SteamPlay, or with VFIO. The Linux native builds tend to be a version behind or have poorer support than the Windows ones. It's based on the devs, of course, but the take away is that it's historically been a crapshoot. SteamPlay/Proton provides native or better performance over Windows for what I play. I've been using it so long that I actually don't know which games have native Linux versions anymore. It 99% "just works". VFIO is virtualization where hardware is passed through to the guest OS. I use KVM+qemu on Linux and attach PCI devices like GPU and storage to the VMs. This is a native Windows game build on a Windows VM on a Linux host. It performs within a tight few percent of bare metal Windows, and the host is fully functional while in use. Linux gaming options range from direct and inflexible, to feature parity with native performance and compatibility, to complex but guaranteed native support. I've relied on the first and last less and less over the years as Proton has improved.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
Interestingly, I have windows software that were working with wine previously but new versions don't seem to work for some reason. I used the new bottles thing. Compared to a copy of among us which played seamlessly.
tetha 5y ago
I've also had a really suprising experience with my linux gaming setup: Playing old retro windows game has become easier, because wine can run a suprising amount of things. I recently itched to play Civ2 and after some wrangling with the setup file, I can now run Civ2 entirely transparently on my linux box. Same for a bunch of other Win95-era games - no need to fiddle with compat settings on windows and hoping, a lot of them just work in wine. That's pretty amazing. The only thing I've found so far that just doesn't work is Tiberium Insurrection, because it does some weird things I don't understand. But with the way Win11 is going, I rather take that kinda problem.
dotancohen 5y ago
> If only Adobe would release their software in Linux, then, I could ditch MacOS too. Have you written to them that you would purchase their software anew on Linux? Without a financial incentive, Adobe will not support Linux. I do not use Photoshop, but I would purchase a copy for Linux just to encourage and support development. Adobe support: https://www.adobe.com/about-adobe/contact.html https://www.adobe.com/about-adobe/contact.html
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Grakel 5y ago
  Unfortunately you can't purchase a copy of Photoshop on any platform. You can only buy a subscription, and what's more starting Photoshop starts 5 or 6 other programs that slow down your system and does who knows what. Fuck Adobe, just another company that doesn't care about users.
- juusto 5y ago
  No I have not. Will do it right now, thanks for the heads up.
robotnikman 5y ago
I wonder if Wine can be used to run Windows versions of adobe software on linux. The adobe software is the same thing preventing me from switching to using a linux distro full time.
- controlledchaos 5y ago
  I’m not sure which tools you are referring to exactly, but I’ve had success with Adobe Reader/Acrobat using Wine.

by juusto 5y ago

lambdaba 5y ago

Aren't Wine / some virtualization like VirtualBox seamless mode viable options?

Le_Dook 5y ago
Some software are hit and miss, or just fail to work on wine. Big one for a lot of people is the Affinity suite.
juusto 5y ago
From what I saw only old versions of the software I need run and when they run lots of little things are missing. I would call software with that amount of quirks and performance issues pre-alpha quality. So, I can use my MacBook for Adobe for now until they come to their senses.
tobz1000 5y ago
I've had no luck with Photoshop in Wine or VB seamless mode (PS's custom window decorators are probably the reason for the latter). A full-desktop Windows VM is still good enough with guest extensions though, so I can easily resize the whole Windows desktop with just a maximised PS window inside.
underscore_ku 5y ago
WINE is an acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator"
kevingadd 5y ago
VirtualBox is a horrible way to run games of any kind. The driver support for graphics is miserable.
em3rgent0rdr 5y ago
Proton is a fork of Wine. Just more tailored towards steam games.
- brnt 5y ago
  actually, proton is two things: wine+dxvk. dxvk is a windows (!) program that translates directx to vulkan. between the two of them theyre all thats needed to run games. proton is in addition funded and tested thoroughly by a critical audience, linux gamers ;)

raxxorrax 5y ago

The way that Blender is developing they could get into trouble. Might not yet fit perfectly into the toolchain of many artists, but I guess it will make ground in a professional setting. I haven't missed photoshop either, I only paint and model as a hobby though.

buovjaga 5y ago
Adobe is sponsoring Blender at the second-highest level: https://fund.blender.org/ https://fund.blender.org/ So they don't seem very worried about it yet :)
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  That is standard business practice by now if you want to influence competition or use it to further your own goals. MS in Linux Foundation, US in Wuhan Labs, etc. pp.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

christophilus 5y ago

Been running Fedora + Steam for over a year, now. The experience has been great. It’s hard to imagine going back. I do miss Mac hardware, though. My 1.5 year old Dell XPS already has a bad key, and a faulty WiFi card. It’s complete garbage. My next laptop will be the Framework 15” 4K option whenever they make one…

amcoastal 5y ago
I like how your first thing when complaining about a non-Mac laptop is a complaint about the keyboard. Oh, you sweet summer child :)
- thathndude 5y ago
  Unpopular opinion: I miss my butterfly keyboard. I never had any of the flaky-key issues. And I loved the crisp feel of the keys. I don’t need key travel. I like the futuristic (and unrealistic) idea of typing on glass. In some ways, the butterfly was just a step away from that, but with the slightest bit of physical feedback. At the least, I definitely did not loathe the butterfly like mini.
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    Same here. The butterfly felt much better than the Magic Keyboard. I also liked the way it sounded. What I didn't like is that it went bad after 2 years of not very heavy use (I have an external keyboard). If Apple could make a reliable butterfly keyboard, I'd love to have it. OTOH, I appreciate the new ones having a keyboard that feel closer to the pre-Magic ones (same feel as the pre-butterfly laptops). It's OK, if not a revolution.
- christophilus 5y ago
  I've had plenty of Macs, including the butterfly keyboard (which did go bad on me). But. It took that butterfly keyboard longer to go bad than the Dell XPS. The Dell is honestly a steaming pile of crap.
throwaway17_17 5y ago

smusamashah 5y ago

How is the performance of games? What I understand is that proton is a layer/adapter to run windows games and should create a FPS hit. Or do you get the same performance of running on widows?

gameswithgo 5y ago
most games the performance hit is going to be not noticeable when to some, mildly annoying to others, and totally unacceptable to o a few. Like if you were trying to be competitive in a modern AAA fps, prolly won’t be ok. But big non twitch 3d games are still very good!
- rightbyte 5y ago
  > But big non twitch 3d games are still very good! What do you mean?
  - kevingadd 5y ago
    'twitch' in games typically means latency-sensitive, like a competitive FPS where being 10ms faster to shoot than the other guy means you win the round. Many games can handle 100ms of latency no problem, so running at 50fps instead of 60fps is no big deal. On consoles those games typically run at 30fps to begin with, which is at minimum 16ms more latency than playing at 60fps on a linux or windows PC.
juusto 5y ago
Very good, I am not a 4k-120fps-highest-detail kind of gamer so anything over 60fps at 1440p with high detail is quite enough for me. I run RDR2, Fallout 4, TW series, and some indie stuff at those specs and I have no problems even with mods. I see no difference from Windows but, ofc, you mileage may vary depending on your HW and what you want from your games.
washadjeffmad 5y ago
Modern games can be run on Linux three ways: with native Linux builds, with Proton/dxvk/d3dvk or SteamPlay, or with VFIO. The Linux native builds tend to be a version behind or have poorer support than the Windows ones. It's based on the devs, of course, but the take away is that it's historically been a crapshoot. SteamPlay/Proton provides native or better performance over Windows for what I play. I've been using it so long that I actually don't know which games have native Linux versions anymore. It 99% "just works". VFIO is virtualization where hardware is passed through to the guest OS. I use KVM+qemu on Linux and attach PCI devices like GPU and storage to the VMs. This is a native Windows game build on a Windows VM on a Linux host. It performs within a tight few percent of bare metal Windows, and the host is fully functional while in use. Linux gaming options range from direct and inflexible, to feature parity with native performance and compatibility, to complex but guaranteed native support. I've relied on the first and last less and less over the years as Proton has improved.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

Interestingly, I have windows software that were working with wine previously but new versions don't seem to work for some reason. I used the new bottles thing. Compared to a copy of among us which played seamlessly.

tetha 5y ago

I've also had a really suprising experience with my linux gaming setup: Playing old retro windows game has become easier, because wine can run a suprising amount of things. I recently itched to play Civ2 and after some wrangling with the setup file, I can now run Civ2 entirely transparently on my linux box. Same for a bunch of other Win95-era games - no need to fiddle with compat settings on windows and hoping, a lot of them just work in wine. That's pretty amazing. The only thing I've found so far that just doesn't work is Tiberium Insurrection, because it does some weird things I don't understand. But with the way Win11 is going, I rather take that kinda problem.

dotancohen 5y ago

> If only Adobe would release their software in Linux, then, I could ditch MacOS too. Have you written to them that you would purchase their software anew on Linux? Without a financial incentive, Adobe will not support Linux. I do not use Photoshop, but I would purchase a copy for Linux just to encourage and support development. Adobe support: https://www.adobe.com/about-adobe/contact.html https://www.adobe.com/about-adobe/contact.html

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Grakel 5y ago
Unfortunately you can't purchase a copy of Photoshop on any platform. You can only buy a subscription, and what's more starting Photoshop starts 5 or 6 other programs that slow down your system and does who knows what. Fuck Adobe, just another company that doesn't care about users.
juusto 5y ago
No I have not. Will do it right now, thanks for the heads up.

robotnikman 5y ago

I wonder if Wine can be used to run Windows versions of adobe software on linux. The adobe software is the same thing preventing me from switching to using a linux distro full time.

controlledchaos 5y ago
I’m not sure which tools you are referring to exactly, but I’ve had success with Adobe Reader/Acrobat using Wine.