7 ms·

It is definitely not legal, but does happen very occasionally. The issue is that 15 year olds are just that, 15 year old kids.

emteycz 5y ago
How come 16 year old kids can drive just fine in the US?
- croon 5y ago
  Maybe unpopular, but US drivers are in general really bad because the drivers tests are too easy and taken when you're younger. It's driven (no pun intended) by a culture around cars and driving being a right, without consideration for whether everyone should.
  - nivenkos 5y ago
    But driving in the US is much, much easier than most of Europe. Like a small city in Calfornia vs. Barcelona was a world of difference. The US has lots of wide, straight roads instead of the nightmare of one-way streets, bus lanes, bike lanes, mopeds and motorcycles etc. in Europe.
    - MathCodeLove 5y ago
      Extremely true. I lived in Italy for 2 years and driving there was a nightmare, I feel as if I can easily conquer any road in the US now.
    - Zak 5y ago
      As an American currently living in Europe, who has driven in almost every US state and over half the countries in the EU, I don't fully agree. Driving in the US may be easier in the sense of requiring less cognitive load most of the time, but that doesn't translate into lower risk. The challenges are different, but the probability of a fatal collision is higher in the US, whether per person or per vehicle, than in most EU countries. This doesn't surprise me, and it's not just due to driver training. Navigating small streets built before cars is very likely to lead to broken side mirrors and scratched paint, but not injury or death. Misusing a bus lane gets you angry honking and gesturing from bus drivers and maybe a ticket from the police, but not injured or killed. A low-speed car-on-moped collision is bad of course, but not as bad as a car on one of those wide, straight American roads running a red light at 60 MPH and crashing into your driver's door at a right angle. Here's a study with evidence that very wide lanes result in people driving faster and crashing more frequently, a particularly bad combination for safety. https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Streets_Accepted_Paper_for_CITE_Conference_Regina_2015_ https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Stree...
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  They can't. Teens have a far higher rate of crashing than any other age group with only over 80 even coming close. From the NSC >Sixteen- to 19-year-olds represent 3.9% of licensed drivers, but account for 8.6% of drivers in all crashes and 6.0% of drivers in fatal crashes. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-driver/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-dr...
  - HPsquared 5y ago
    The risk of young drivers can be mitigated by more rigorous driving tests, and also driver monitoring of risky drivers (check for patterns of sudden braking, speeding, things like that) by insurers.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    Huh, 1.5x fatalities is not as bad as I expected. Especially since those are the least experienced drivers. I wonder how 18-21 drivers look in countries with a higher age. Though one way to look at it is that a teen driver today is just as safe/dangerous as an average driver 20 years ago, much safer than an average driver 30 years ago, and over twice as safe as an average driver 40 years ago. At least as far as fatalities go.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago. You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        > Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Yes, that's my point. When cars are vastly safer, maybe it's not so bad to let moderately worse drivers be on the road. > You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past. Depends on what kind of safety you're worried about. Also I couldn't find any raw collision statistics.

emteycz 5y ago

How come 16 year old kids can drive just fine in the US?

croon 5y ago
Maybe unpopular, but US drivers are in general really bad because the drivers tests are too easy and taken when you're younger. It's driven (no pun intended) by a culture around cars and driving being a right, without consideration for whether everyone should.
- nivenkos 5y ago
  But driving in the US is much, much easier than most of Europe. Like a small city in Calfornia vs. Barcelona was a world of difference. The US has lots of wide, straight roads instead of the nightmare of one-way streets, bus lanes, bike lanes, mopeds and motorcycles etc. in Europe.
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    Extremely true. I lived in Italy for 2 years and driving there was a nightmare, I feel as if I can easily conquer any road in the US now.
  - Zak 5y ago
    As an American currently living in Europe, who has driven in almost every US state and over half the countries in the EU, I don't fully agree. Driving in the US may be easier in the sense of requiring less cognitive load most of the time, but that doesn't translate into lower risk. The challenges are different, but the probability of a fatal collision is higher in the US, whether per person or per vehicle, than in most EU countries. This doesn't surprise me, and it's not just due to driver training. Navigating small streets built before cars is very likely to lead to broken side mirrors and scratched paint, but not injury or death. Misusing a bus lane gets you angry honking and gesturing from bus drivers and maybe a ticket from the police, but not injured or killed. A low-speed car-on-moped collision is bad of course, but not as bad as a car on one of those wide, straight American roads running a red light at 60 MPH and crashing into your driver's door at a right angle. Here's a study with evidence that very wide lanes result in people driving faster and crashing more frequently, a particularly bad combination for safety. https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Streets_Accepted_Paper_for_CITE_Conference_Regina_2015_ https://www.academia.edu/12488747/Narrower_Lanes_Safer_Stree...
boomboomsubban 5y ago
They can't. Teens have a far higher rate of crashing than any other age group with only over 80 even coming close. From the NSC >Sixteen- to 19-year-olds represent 3.9% of licensed drivers, but account for 8.6% of drivers in all crashes and 6.0% of drivers in fatal crashes. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-driver/ https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/overview/age-of-dr...
- HPsquared 5y ago
  The risk of young drivers can be mitigated by more rigorous driving tests, and also driver monitoring of risky drivers (check for patterns of sudden braking, speeding, things like that) by insurers.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  Huh, 1.5x fatalities is not as bad as I expected. Especially since those are the least experienced drivers. I wonder how 18-21 drivers look in countries with a higher age. Though one way to look at it is that a teen driver today is just as safe/dangerous as an average driver 20 years ago, much safer than an average driver 30 years ago, and over twice as safe as an average driver 40 years ago. At least as far as fatalities go.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago. You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > Cars are much, much safer than 20, 30, and 40 years ago. Yes, that's my point. When cars are vastly safer, maybe it's not so bad to let moderately worse drivers be on the road. > You would have to look at number of all collisions, not just fatalities to get any idea if today’s teens are safer compared to teens in the past. Depends on what kind of safety you're worried about. Also I couldn't find any raw collision statistics.