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I think the outrageous thing here is that Xcode contains Java runtime.

simondotau 5y ago
Really? Xcode is an IDE. Java is a language supported by Xcode, even if it’s (probably) not supported well. (And for a brief time, Java was even a language advocated for app development by Apple.)
- viktorcode 5y ago
  Are you arguing that any IDE must contain JRE?
  - simondotau 5y ago
    What an odd question. No. I was merely expressing surprise that someone would consider a copy of JRE in a big IDE like Xcode to be outrageous. I don't think it's outrageous. Saying that something isn't outrageous isn't synonymous with saying that it's a "must".
    - viktorcode 5y ago
      I agree, I should have worded that differently. My point is an IDE isn't entitled to have yet another runtime which is not used for core functionality just because it is an IDE. I call it outrageous because the task itself (uploading to App Store Connect) don't require a separate runtime. It's likely an artefact from the past or convenience vehicle for whoever wrote it; another example of developer's convenience trumping user experience.
      - simondotau 5y ago
        Personally I think it's outrageous that Apple doesn't maintain and distribute OpenJDK as part of macOS. Wouldn't even require much internal effort—they could just throw a bit of money at Adopt (or similar) to maintain it. It would also be a download-on-first-use thing, much like Rosetta 2 or Xcode command line tools. Latest version only, updated regularly, updates delivered similarly to Safari Technology Preview. If you need a specific version, download it yourself.
- ttepasse 5y ago
  Apple for a long time had WebObjects, a server-side Web Framework in ObjC, later Java, inherited from Next. Judging by URL structure a lot of Apple infrastructure likes the stores and iTunes Connect were build on Webobjects and possible still are.
sproketboy 5y ago
I think the outrageous thing here is that anyone develops for Mac specific platforms.
gregoriol 5y ago
It's indeed quite ridiculous that a very tiny part of xcode requires Java, it's fun how Apple can keep such inconsistencies: why would a part of the development team of xcode use such a different tech compared to the rest of the software
- agsnu 5y ago
  It's part of the App Store upload process, and a legacy/holdover from using WebObjects 5 as part of the back-end for the original iTunes Music Store. WO5 was a full Java rewrite of WebObjects (which was originall Objective-C back when it was started at NeXT), because in around 2000 that seemed like a sensible choice given where the mindshare was in their target market (pretty enterprise - it was like $50k for a full deployment license at the time).

Really? Xcode is an IDE. Java is a language supported by Xcode, even if it’s (probably) not supported well. (And for a brief time, Java was even a language advocated for app development by Apple.)

viktorcode 5y ago
Are you arguing that any IDE must contain JRE?
- simondotau 5y ago
  What an odd question. No. I was merely expressing surprise that someone would consider a copy of JRE in a big IDE like Xcode to be outrageous. I don't think it's outrageous. Saying that something isn't outrageous isn't synonymous with saying that it's a "must".
  - viktorcode 5y ago
    I agree, I should have worded that differently. My point is an IDE isn't entitled to have yet another runtime which is not used for core functionality just because it is an IDE. I call it outrageous because the task itself (uploading to App Store Connect) don't require a separate runtime. It's likely an artefact from the past or convenience vehicle for whoever wrote it; another example of developer's convenience trumping user experience.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      Personally I think it's outrageous that Apple doesn't maintain and distribute OpenJDK as part of macOS. Wouldn't even require much internal effort—they could just throw a bit of money at Adopt (or similar) to maintain it. It would also be a download-on-first-use thing, much like Rosetta 2 or Xcode command line tools. Latest version only, updated regularly, updates delivered similarly to Safari Technology Preview. If you need a specific version, download it yourself.
ttepasse 5y ago
Apple for a long time had WebObjects, a server-side Web Framework in ObjC, later Java, inherited from Next. Judging by URL structure a lot of Apple infrastructure likes the stores and iTunes Connect were build on Webobjects and possible still are.

sproketboy 5y ago

I think the outrageous thing here is that anyone develops for Mac specific platforms.

gregoriol 5y ago

It's indeed quite ridiculous that a very tiny part of xcode requires Java, it's fun how Apple can keep such inconsistencies: why would a part of the development team of xcode use such a different tech compared to the rest of the software

agsnu 5y ago
It's part of the App Store upload process, and a legacy/holdover from using WebObjects 5 as part of the back-end for the original iTunes Music Store. WO5 was a full Java rewrite of WebObjects (which was originall Objective-C back when it was started at NeXT), because in around 2000 that seemed like a sensible choice given where the mindshare was in their target market (pretty enterprise - it was like $50k for a full deployment license at the time).