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This article misses the point, it sees web3 decentralization as purely technical and makes performance comparisons with existing systems. The power of web3 dece

by ar7hur 5y ago

This article misses the point, it sees web3 decentralization as purely technical and makes performance comparisons with existing systems. The power of web3 decentralization is about control, not more powerful computing. Yes your raspberry pi runs faster than the EVM, but can you give me any guarantee about what code it runs?

jjnoakes 5y ago
Why can't you verify the code you run locally?
fabrice_d 5y ago
You could, if the code came from a signed blob that is verified. No need for a blockchain to allow that, it's basically what Mobile OSes are doing, and with multisig you can verify both the developer and the OS vendor.
- DesiLurker 5y ago
  well then you are trusting the signer, that is the ultimate promise of decentralization. especially coupled with deterministic builds by gcc you could have a end-to-end verified firmware running on a device.
pavlov 5y ago
The comparison between Raspberry Pi and EVM is off by many, many orders of magnitude. What Ethereum marketing likes to call a “global supercomputer” is slower than a 1950s computer built out of vacuum tubes, and running programs is more expensive than it was in 1955. (Programming ergonomics are also nearly punch card level.) There are very few applications you’d actually want to execute on a platform like that. And every attempt to improve the design (including the long-promised PoS transition) is going to turn it into a centralized plutocracy. It’s a fascinating science experiment that doesn’t have much purpose as an application environment. But because people are stubborn and the marketing was successful enough, “blockchain” is to this decade what “object-oriented” was in 1990s: a token gesture towards it will make managers and journalists happy.
- carpo 5y ago
  That's a bizarre comparison considering the prevalence of Object Oriented programming languages and the ubiquity of that style of programming.
  - Nursie 5y ago
    It's no longer considered the only way though, nor are companies selling software based on how object-oriented it is. They did in the 90s. OO is now one of several styles, and we no longer have the drive for OO purity we did back then - modern languages and modern versions of languages tend to mix up paradigms and make pragmatic choices, rather than insist on OO everything being the only way.
- abaga129 5y ago
  Most layer 1 Blockchains are trying to replace the existing payment processing systems such as visa. Not replace all of our computing infrastructure (although some are trying to do this such as ICP)
- mattwilsonn888 5y ago
  Your comment is flawed from the start: no one actually working on Ethereum ever claimed the EVM itself would be a 'super computer.' Thats's day 1 shit. If instead of focusing on the flaws and then writing off blockchains, you searched for solutions or for the people more intelligent than yourself working on those solutions, you may have stumbled across ingenious proposals like the TrueBit protocol which can perform efficient computation trustlessy, or its competitors like the very well known Internet Computer, which surely deserves some criticism but doesn't waiver to your simplistic, narrow, and misplaced argument.
  - redbar0n 5y ago
    > no one actually working on Ethereum ever claimed the EVM itself would be a 'super computer.' Thats's day 1 shit. Exhibit A, (Dec 9, 2021): Vitalik Buterin, C. Jentzsch: Creating the World Computer - The Past, Present and Future of Ethereum - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE8mV8N6cfw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE8mV8N6cfw Exhibit B, (Jul 30, 2015): Ethereum: the World Computer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23HnORQXvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23HnORQXvs

by ar7hur 5y ago

jjnoakes 5y ago

Why can't you verify the code you run locally?

fabrice_d 5y ago

You could, if the code came from a signed blob that is verified. No need for a blockchain to allow that, it's basically what Mobile OSes are doing, and with multisig you can verify both the developer and the OS vendor.

DesiLurker 5y ago
well then you are trusting the signer, that is the ultimate promise of decentralization. especially coupled with deterministic builds by gcc you could have a end-to-end verified firmware running on a device.

pavlov 5y ago

The comparison between Raspberry Pi and EVM is off by many, many orders of magnitude. What Ethereum marketing likes to call a “global supercomputer” is slower than a 1950s computer built out of vacuum tubes, and running programs is more expensive than it was in 1955. (Programming ergonomics are also nearly punch card level.) There are very few applications you’d actually want to execute on a platform like that. And every attempt to improve the design (including the long-promised PoS transition) is going to turn it into a centralized plutocracy. It’s a fascinating science experiment that doesn’t have much purpose as an application environment. But because people are stubborn and the marketing was successful enough, “blockchain” is to this decade what “object-oriented” was in 1990s: a token gesture towards it will make managers and journalists happy.

carpo 5y ago
That's a bizarre comparison considering the prevalence of Object Oriented programming languages and the ubiquity of that style of programming.
- Nursie 5y ago
  It's no longer considered the only way though, nor are companies selling software based on how object-oriented it is. They did in the 90s. OO is now one of several styles, and we no longer have the drive for OO purity we did back then - modern languages and modern versions of languages tend to mix up paradigms and make pragmatic choices, rather than insist on OO everything being the only way.
abaga129 5y ago
Most layer 1 Blockchains are trying to replace the existing payment processing systems such as visa. Not replace all of our computing infrastructure (although some are trying to do this such as ICP)
mattwilsonn888 5y ago
Your comment is flawed from the start: no one actually working on Ethereum ever claimed the EVM itself would be a 'super computer.' Thats's day 1 shit. If instead of focusing on the flaws and then writing off blockchains, you searched for solutions or for the people more intelligent than yourself working on those solutions, you may have stumbled across ingenious proposals like the TrueBit protocol which can perform efficient computation trustlessy, or its competitors like the very well known Internet Computer, which surely deserves some criticism but doesn't waiver to your simplistic, narrow, and misplaced argument.
- redbar0n 5y ago
  > no one actually working on Ethereum ever claimed the EVM itself would be a 'super computer.' Thats's day 1 shit. Exhibit A, (Dec 9, 2021): Vitalik Buterin, C. Jentzsch: Creating the World Computer - The Past, Present and Future of Ethereum - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE8mV8N6cfw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE8mV8N6cfw Exhibit B, (Jul 30, 2015): Ethereum: the World Computer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23HnORQXvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23HnORQXvs