5 ms·

> My own theory is that the root cause is decades of wide-spread awareness of global warming. Back when I were a kid people were afraid of nuclear winter, or g

by f00zz 5y ago

> My own theory is that the root cause is decades of wide-spread awareness of global warming. Back when I were a kid people were afraid of nuclear winter, or getting fried by UV radiation because of aerosols, or 10 billion people in 2010. The sense of impending doom is hardly a new thing.

lambdaba 5y ago
But was it so constant? I can't recall the exact number but a huge percentage of Gen Z are persuaded they are likely to die of global warming. I can't say, I'm a millennial, but definitely remember being infused with information about environmental destruction since a small child.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- foobarian 5y ago
  Apparently it was. Keep in mind that that generation had a much fresher and more direct memory of a significant conflict (WW2) and so there are common experiences where people would be jumpy at any odd light flying around, sirens, sounds, always ready to jump under the table or shelter to try to hide from the nuclear blast. I am certainly glad we don't live under that kind of fear, even if we have something else to replace it.
  - UncleOxidant 5y ago
    > Keep in mind that that generation had a much fresher and more direct memory of a significant conflict (WW2) Not just the generation you refer to (pre-boomers who would have some memory of WW2), but also boomers and us Xers also were also quite aware that nuclear war was a real possibility.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  Its not just global warming, fairly huge amount of global population barely registers it, since its not so much right here & right now making you die slowly. Doom and gloom bombardment is everywhere, at least to some extent. Its covid, economy, ecology, politics, global politics, wars and so on. Then you go to some other place and magic happens - people are still cheerful, live like covid isnt a thing bombarding us from every direction constantly. I am in paragliding course in south Spain now, and I can tell you. I've teleported into another dimension for 2 weeks. Regardless of all the cold hard facts, I like it very much, a breath of the age gone. Recharging batteries that badly needed it. At the end its childishly stupid to not see forest for the trees, and living in semi-bearable misery over things one cannot change. I for a change have faith in mankind resilience and technologies future will bring, ie for cleaning up the mess we all do right now, by using devices to type/read this for example. Because we think its our right to have them, buy often almost same ones and brag on anonymous forums like this one about how much power one wields and how smooth animations are.
- Baeocystin 5y ago
  The fear of imminent nuclear destruction was much more omnipresent than the fears of environmental catastrophe are today. Seriously, it's not even close. When The Day After came out, it was a huge deal. It literally had such a strong impact it directly affected the US' nuclear deterrent policy. When the Wind Blows and Threads, both British productions, also accurately reflected the ennui of the time. Heck, you had a pop single hit #1, and the entire subject was accidental Armageddon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Wind_Blows_(1986_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Wind_Blows_(1986_film... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads_(1984_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads_(1984_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_Luftballons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_Luftballons
- ianmcgowan 5y ago
  Growing up in the 70's and 80's I was pretty convinced we'd never see the year 2000 as a society. The 90's were a welcome shock, with the fall of the Berlin Wall, end of Apartheid and a provisional peace in Northern Island amongst other positive signs. Global warming was there, but seemed much less likely to cause the apocalypse compared to nuclear war.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  Yes it was at least as constant. Growing up in the 70s/80s there was a constant feeling that nuclear annihilation was quite possible and maybe even imminent. Around 1980 our family moved to a house that was only about 5 miles from a nuclear submarine base. We joked that if a nuclear war started we were pretty much at ground zero and at least we wouldn't suffer.
- dionidium 5y ago
  When I was a kid in the 80s I was sure I was going to experience global nuclear war before I became an adult. I thought about it a lot.
  - AnimalMuppet 5y ago
    Yeah, but we reacted differently. We still went to school, and got jobs, and got married, and had kids, even though the world could end tomorrow.
  - buildsjets 5y ago
    We still had literal duck-and-cover drills in school long into the mid '80s. New York area. File into the hallway, face the wall, kneel on the ground with your head in the corner between the floor and wall, put your hands behind your neck, kiss your ass goodbye.
  - Stranger43 5y ago
    Where i live we had weekly air siren tests back in the 80ies, i don't think that was ever the case for America but on the projected front-lines the Cold War was very real, and the release of tension that when the wall finally came crusting down and the eastern European countries re-emerged as friends were an powerful event doing my childhood.
- modulusshift 5y ago
  The nuclear scare was definitely that constant, if not even more so. It was also a much more black and white issue, there was a clear us vs them to it. I personally think that 9/11 and the response to it would have all been taken completely differently if it weren't for the Cold War only ending a decade before. Bush wasn't laughed out of Congress for talking about an Axis of Evil because it sounded exactly like American foreign policy had for decades at that point, notably Reagan's Evil Empire back in the 80's.
s1artibartfast 5y ago
I think there is a difference in intensity with respect to climate change fears. Climate change is being taught as an existential threat that will certainly destroy your future if action is not taken. This is taught and messaged to young elementary school children. My friends third graders class recently held climate policy protests with picket signs and everything. This is a level of pervasive fear is higher than I remember with nuclear winter/UV/ or the fear of the day when I was growing up
- native_samples 5y ago
  Probably, there's a difference with respect to outcomes. Nuclear war: scary, but nothing you can actually do anything about. So you have, in a way, permission to forget about it. Climate change: everyone is told all the time that they have a personal responsibility to save the planet, even though there's actually not much they can do either. But people aren't giving themselves permission to forget about it, and people who point out that there's not much the average person can do are demonized. I do agree that climate doomerism is a major impediment to progress of all kinds, partly because it redirects a lot of mental energy down rabbit holes that don't actually make people's lives better, only different or less worse (e.g. renewable power doesn't directly improve anyone's lives, and may make it worse if it reduces grid stability, so it doesn't feel like "progress" in the way that 60s sci-fi authors thought of it).
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    I think you are on to something, but it is even worse. There are several things that individuals can do to reduce their carbon impact, but they are extremely inconvenient. Coupled with an inability to forget, this leads to a lot of cognitive dissonance.
    - native_samples 5y ago
      However, individual impacts are irrelevant. See the case of the UK. It makes up 1% or less of global carbon emissions. It doesn't matter how much the average Brit does to reduce their personal carbon impact, it will all amount to nothing. Therefore, they should stop worrying and forget about it - but "society" (really, the media/public sector classes) won't let them.
dillondoyle 5y ago
That's a great frame/empathetic connection I haven't thought of! I personally experience this existential dread and anger from not being able to force any action on the scale we need on climate change. Kind of feel silly that I've never really put together that people in your generation felt similarly about an impending nuclear winter, population growth starvation etc. Sadly a lot of that generation are the least likely to want dramatic efforts to fight climate change/most skeptical. Some points almost 2X less likely to want immediate action. https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/05/26/gen-z-millennials-stand-out-for-climate-change-activism-social-media-engagement-with-issue/ https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/05/26/gen-z-millenn...
- mech422 5y ago
  I think every generation has had their 'dread'... from world wars, to cold wars, to climate... Personally, it seems like what changed was somewhere around Gen-X we lost faith in our ability to change anything. That feeling of helplessness seems to have deepened from Gen-X to Gen-Z. Oddly, my generation-Alpha nieces and nephew's still seem optimistic. Is is just youth? or will things start to turn around... Only time will tell....
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    Interesting about gen A. they have seen & helped create dramatic change from even just 10-15 yeas ago when I was in school. On LGBTQ issues, equality, & so much more. So maybe they are our saviors! Hell I work in politics myself with decent access to politicians and help raise money. Nope. Doesn't matter in terms of power I have basically none besides perhaps getting more money spent on climate issue ads. I think the only way to get drastic action is if a large % of voting population demands it. Sadly the defeatist attitude reinforces the powerless cycle by not voting and not participating, because they think it doesn't matter. So therefore it doesn't.
    - mech422 5y ago
      >>I think the only way to get drastic action is if a large % of voting population demands it. Sadly the defeatist attitude reinforces the powerless cycle by not voting and not participating, because they think it doesn't matter. So therefore it doesn't. Yeah - its the definition of a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's maddening that so many people are upset with how things are going, but refuse to vote..I don't care how or who you vote for...just vote! Nothing will change until people get off the sofas.

by f00zz 5y ago

lambdaba 5y ago

But was it so constant? I can't recall the exact number but a huge percentage of Gen Z are persuaded they are likely to die of global warming. I can't say, I'm a millennial, but definitely remember being infused with information about environmental destruction since a small child.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
foobarian 5y ago
Apparently it was. Keep in mind that that generation had a much fresher and more direct memory of a significant conflict (WW2) and so there are common experiences where people would be jumpy at any odd light flying around, sirens, sounds, always ready to jump under the table or shelter to try to hide from the nuclear blast. I am certainly glad we don't live under that kind of fear, even if we have something else to replace it.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  > Keep in mind that that generation had a much fresher and more direct memory of a significant conflict (WW2) Not just the generation you refer to (pre-boomers who would have some memory of WW2), but also boomers and us Xers also were also quite aware that nuclear war was a real possibility.
saiya-jin 5y ago
Its not just global warming, fairly huge amount of global population barely registers it, since its not so much right here & right now making you die slowly. Doom and gloom bombardment is everywhere, at least to some extent. Its covid, economy, ecology, politics, global politics, wars and so on. Then you go to some other place and magic happens - people are still cheerful, live like covid isnt a thing bombarding us from every direction constantly. I am in paragliding course in south Spain now, and I can tell you. I've teleported into another dimension for 2 weeks. Regardless of all the cold hard facts, I like it very much, a breath of the age gone. Recharging batteries that badly needed it. At the end its childishly stupid to not see forest for the trees, and living in semi-bearable misery over things one cannot change. I for a change have faith in mankind resilience and technologies future will bring, ie for cleaning up the mess we all do right now, by using devices to type/read this for example. Because we think its our right to have them, buy often almost same ones and brag on anonymous forums like this one about how much power one wields and how smooth animations are.
Baeocystin 5y ago
The fear of imminent nuclear destruction was much more omnipresent than the fears of environmental catastrophe are today. Seriously, it's not even close. When The Day After came out, it was a huge deal. It literally had such a strong impact it directly affected the US' nuclear deterrent policy. When the Wind Blows and Threads, both British productions, also accurately reflected the ennui of the time. Heck, you had a pop single hit #1, and the entire subject was accidental Armageddon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Wind_Blows_(1986_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Wind_Blows_(1986_film... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads_(1984_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads_(1984_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_Luftballons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_Luftballons
ianmcgowan 5y ago
Growing up in the 70's and 80's I was pretty convinced we'd never see the year 2000 as a society. The 90's were a welcome shock, with the fall of the Berlin Wall, end of Apartheid and a provisional peace in Northern Island amongst other positive signs. Global warming was there, but seemed much less likely to cause the apocalypse compared to nuclear war.
UncleOxidant 5y ago
Yes it was at least as constant. Growing up in the 70s/80s there was a constant feeling that nuclear annihilation was quite possible and maybe even imminent. Around 1980 our family moved to a house that was only about 5 miles from a nuclear submarine base. We joked that if a nuclear war started we were pretty much at ground zero and at least we wouldn't suffer.
dionidium 5y ago
When I was a kid in the 80s I was sure I was going to experience global nuclear war before I became an adult. I thought about it a lot.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Yeah, but we reacted differently. We still went to school, and got jobs, and got married, and had kids, even though the world could end tomorrow.
- buildsjets 5y ago
  We still had literal duck-and-cover drills in school long into the mid '80s. New York area. File into the hallway, face the wall, kneel on the ground with your head in the corner between the floor and wall, put your hands behind your neck, kiss your ass goodbye.
- Stranger43 5y ago
  Where i live we had weekly air siren tests back in the 80ies, i don't think that was ever the case for America but on the projected front-lines the Cold War was very real, and the release of tension that when the wall finally came crusting down and the eastern European countries re-emerged as friends were an powerful event doing my childhood.
modulusshift 5y ago
The nuclear scare was definitely that constant, if not even more so. It was also a much more black and white issue, there was a clear us vs them to it. I personally think that 9/11 and the response to it would have all been taken completely differently if it weren't for the Cold War only ending a decade before. Bush wasn't laughed out of Congress for talking about an Axis of Evil because it sounded exactly like American foreign policy had for decades at that point, notably Reagan's Evil Empire back in the 80's.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

I think there is a difference in intensity with respect to climate change fears. Climate change is being taught as an existential threat that will certainly destroy your future if action is not taken. This is taught and messaged to young elementary school children. My friends third graders class recently held climate policy protests with picket signs and everything. This is a level of pervasive fear is higher than I remember with nuclear winter/UV/ or the fear of the day when I was growing up

native_samples 5y ago
Probably, there's a difference with respect to outcomes. Nuclear war: scary, but nothing you can actually do anything about. So you have, in a way, permission to forget about it. Climate change: everyone is told all the time that they have a personal responsibility to save the planet, even though there's actually not much they can do either. But people aren't giving themselves permission to forget about it, and people who point out that there's not much the average person can do are demonized. I do agree that climate doomerism is a major impediment to progress of all kinds, partly because it redirects a lot of mental energy down rabbit holes that don't actually make people's lives better, only different or less worse (e.g. renewable power doesn't directly improve anyone's lives, and may make it worse if it reduces grid stability, so it doesn't feel like "progress" in the way that 60s sci-fi authors thought of it).
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I think you are on to something, but it is even worse. There are several things that individuals can do to reduce their carbon impact, but they are extremely inconvenient. Coupled with an inability to forget, this leads to a lot of cognitive dissonance.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    However, individual impacts are irrelevant. See the case of the UK. It makes up 1% or less of global carbon emissions. It doesn't matter how much the average Brit does to reduce their personal carbon impact, it will all amount to nothing. Therefore, they should stop worrying and forget about it - but "society" (really, the media/public sector classes) won't let them.

dillondoyle 5y ago

That's a great frame/empathetic connection I haven't thought of! I personally experience this existential dread and anger from not being able to force any action on the scale we need on climate change. Kind of feel silly that I've never really put together that people in your generation felt similarly about an impending nuclear winter, population growth starvation etc. Sadly a lot of that generation are the least likely to want dramatic efforts to fight climate change/most skeptical. Some points almost 2X less likely to want immediate action. https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/05/26/gen-z-millennials-stand-out-for-climate-change-activism-social-media-engagement-with-issue/ https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/05/26/gen-z-millenn...

mech422 5y ago
I think every generation has had their 'dread'... from world wars, to cold wars, to climate... Personally, it seems like what changed was somewhere around Gen-X we lost faith in our ability to change anything. That feeling of helplessness seems to have deepened from Gen-X to Gen-Z. Oddly, my generation-Alpha nieces and nephew's still seem optimistic. Is is just youth? or will things start to turn around... Only time will tell....
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  Interesting about gen A. they have seen & helped create dramatic change from even just 10-15 yeas ago when I was in school. On LGBTQ issues, equality, & so much more. So maybe they are our saviors! Hell I work in politics myself with decent access to politicians and help raise money. Nope. Doesn't matter in terms of power I have basically none besides perhaps getting more money spent on climate issue ads. I think the only way to get drastic action is if a large % of voting population demands it. Sadly the defeatist attitude reinforces the powerless cycle by not voting and not participating, because they think it doesn't matter. So therefore it doesn't.
  - mech422 5y ago
    >>I think the only way to get drastic action is if a large % of voting population demands it. Sadly the defeatist attitude reinforces the powerless cycle by not voting and not participating, because they think it doesn't matter. So therefore it doesn't. Yeah - its the definition of a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's maddening that so many people are upset with how things are going, but refuse to vote..I don't care how or who you vote for...just vote! Nothing will change until people get off the sofas.