6 ms·

Never drank city water, it's always disgusting regardless if it's toxic or not. I've put in and maintained 3 RO under sink systems, but I've never heard of a c

Never drank city water, it's always disgusting regardless if it's toxic or not. I've put in and maintained 3 RO under sink systems, but I've never heard of a countertop one. Does it have a product tank? How much are the consumable parts? Currently, since I'm in an apartment, I have a subscription at an independent commercial/retail water store that has a 10-stage system. My mom's house has a 3-stage whole house water filter down to .2 micron, a water softener, and a 6-stage RO filter with UV sterilization. The whole house and RO systems use commodity parts and filters so they're not as expensive as those branded ones with proprietary "easy change" filters.

willis936 5y ago
I bought an Express Water setup that cost $150 with a 3 year supply of filters for $90. I also got an alkaline stage that I put just before the carbon post filter (it wouldn't fit in the kit otherwise). Water input and waste output screws into the kitchen sink aerator. There is no tank, which was the biggest con to me when weighing my options. I considered getting a tank to put inline with the output, but I don't think my pressure is high enough and my SO would not appreciate the counter space loss. I've been using a large Brita tank in my fridge for many years, so I just fill that up daily. It's about 30 minutes of babysitting: very reasonable while doing other chores. It isn't as convenient as it could be, but its a solution that fits the shape of the problem.
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  Sounds like you got taken for a ride. You can get a real RO setup for $150 from wateranywhere.com. They're the retail side of AMI who makes RO membranes in SoCal. The filters need to be changed 2-4 times per year, and the membrane 1-2 also. That's going to cost a lot more than 90. If you're not changing the membrane, that's gross. If it is, I don't see how they can do it that cheaply unless it's an ineffective system. A permeate pump (passive device accomplishing pressure exchange) increases the product-to-waste ratio greatly. In all honesty, a 100 gpd system with a tank is the sweet spot because tankless (200 gpd) is too slow. Alkaline is a magical, hocus-pocus trend for Hollywood wellness, "cleanses", and hippies with crystals. They sell that nonsense at my water store because enough ignorant fools asked for it and are willing to shell out money because some celebrity probably endorsed it. Britas are solely for taste, expensive to operate, and filter next to nothing.
  - willis936 5y ago
    A few things: 1. I paid the same price as your preferred RO solution. Water filters are a commodity. Additionally, the filter supply I bought is cheap as hell compared to competitors. The change schedule doesn't change between vendors. How exactly does any of this mean I was "taken for a ride"? 2. Alkaline filters remineralize the water. Not to any great effect, but they do return the pH to 7. The magnitude of the effect? Incredibly minor. The actual cost? Incredibly minor. Why don't you just chill out and mind your own business? 3. Britas are carbon filters. I assume you believe the carbon stages in RO systems filter next to nothing as well? Also, you'll note that the Brita is being used as a storage device, so your critique is not only unasked for but unwarranted as well.
bastardoperator 5y ago
I use RO for my garden, but not for drinking. The amount of water waste for a commercial RO system is fairly large. For what it's worth the WHO also claims low TDS water long term is not good for health/intestines/kidneys. https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap12.pdf https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientscha... • Direct effects on the intestinal mucous membrane, metabolism and mineral homeostasis or other body functions. • Little or no intake of calcium and magnesium from low-mineral water. • Low intake of other essential elements and microelements. • Loss of calcium, magnesium and other essential elements in prepared food. • Possible increased dietary intake of toxic metals.
- willis936 5y ago
  Is this paper a joke? The adverse health effects they list are under the noise floor and there is no mention of the alternative being risking exposure to heavy metals with health risks far above the noise floor. Additionally, the recommendations entirely ignore the idea of remineralization. I have to wonder why they would publish such an incomplete study and conclude it with dangerous guidance.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    Because remineralization doesn't actually work? Makes perfect sense to remove the minerals just to add them back. Many water treatment companies suggest that because reverse osmosis systems remove the minerals from water that you should add a remineralizing filter afterwards for the purpose of restoring minerals to your water. I’ve tested these filters and while the pH rose dramatically due to carbonates in the filter there were no minerals added. A number of companies use coral calcium as the remineralizing filter and it is true that coral calcium contains some 70 trace minerals. The problem is that the water passing through a filter system is not in contact with the coral calcium long enough to dissolve it. The water picks up carbonate and as a result the pH increases but essentially no minerals are added. You might see trace amounts of calcium and magnesium.
    - errcorrectcode 5y ago
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
As a european I find this seriously disturbing. We've had water supply for hundreds of years, even in Russia it is generally decent, there is no excuse for a first world country. Bottling industry is harmfull, wastefull and inefficient.
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  My friend, the US isn't a first-world country. Just look at how many homeless and struggling poor people there are compared to the billionaires and the rest of the uber rich in their gated communities. And the number of shootings, mass shootings, incarceration rate per capita (highest in the world), and who is in prisons (elderly minorities serving mandatory sentences for petty crimes). In Austin TX, nonviolent crimes are no longer investigated or prosecuted for the most part. I would sooner compare the US to Brazil, complete with smash-and-grab gang robberies. It won't be long before gangs mass rob the public in decaying cities like Austin, Chicago, and Detroit. Just like Brazil or Mexico: lawless, corrupt, failed states. Filter your own water at home if you can because the tap water in the US isn't trustworthy (chloramines at a minimum). I take my 5 and 7 gallon containers to the water store for filling. It's very efficient. I don't know why you're comparing RO to bottled water. PS: It's spelled "harmful" and "wasteful".
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > the US isn't a first-world country. If you are going to use the outdated, broken, and useless-for-the-current-context first/second/third-world model at all you should realize that the US is the country with whom relations define whether a country is first-world; it is one for two fixed poles of the model. If you want to say “the US is a capitalist country with intense concentration of wealth and too many people in poverty given the aggregate level of prosperity”, that's valid but even when the first-, etc., world model was current and relevant, that description was most typical of the first-world (including the US of the time). The second- and third-world had their own, different, typical problems.
    - errcorrectcode 5y ago

willis936 5y ago

I bought an Express Water setup that cost $150 with a 3 year supply of filters for $90. I also got an alkaline stage that I put just before the carbon post filter (it wouldn't fit in the kit otherwise). Water input and waste output screws into the kitchen sink aerator. There is no tank, which was the biggest con to me when weighing my options. I considered getting a tank to put inline with the output, but I don't think my pressure is high enough and my SO would not appreciate the counter space loss. I've been using a large Brita tank in my fridge for many years, so I just fill that up daily. It's about 30 minutes of babysitting: very reasonable while doing other chores. It isn't as convenient as it could be, but its a solution that fits the shape of the problem.

errcorrectcode 5y ago
Sounds like you got taken for a ride. You can get a real RO setup for $150 from wateranywhere.com. They're the retail side of AMI who makes RO membranes in SoCal. The filters need to be changed 2-4 times per year, and the membrane 1-2 also. That's going to cost a lot more than 90. If you're not changing the membrane, that's gross. If it is, I don't see how they can do it that cheaply unless it's an ineffective system. A permeate pump (passive device accomplishing pressure exchange) increases the product-to-waste ratio greatly. In all honesty, a 100 gpd system with a tank is the sweet spot because tankless (200 gpd) is too slow. Alkaline is a magical, hocus-pocus trend for Hollywood wellness, "cleanses", and hippies with crystals. They sell that nonsense at my water store because enough ignorant fools asked for it and are willing to shell out money because some celebrity probably endorsed it. Britas are solely for taste, expensive to operate, and filter next to nothing.
- willis936 5y ago
  A few things: 1. I paid the same price as your preferred RO solution. Water filters are a commodity. Additionally, the filter supply I bought is cheap as hell compared to competitors. The change schedule doesn't change between vendors. How exactly does any of this mean I was "taken for a ride"? 2. Alkaline filters remineralize the water. Not to any great effect, but they do return the pH to 7. The magnitude of the effect? Incredibly minor. The actual cost? Incredibly minor. Why don't you just chill out and mind your own business? 3. Britas are carbon filters. I assume you believe the carbon stages in RO systems filter next to nothing as well? Also, you'll note that the Brita is being used as a storage device, so your critique is not only unasked for but unwarranted as well.

bastardoperator 5y ago

I use RO for my garden, but not for drinking. The amount of water waste for a commercial RO system is fairly large. For what it's worth the WHO also claims low TDS water long term is not good for health/intestines/kidneys. https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap12.pdf https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientscha... • Direct effects on the intestinal mucous membrane, metabolism and mineral homeostasis or other body functions. • Little or no intake of calcium and magnesium from low-mineral water. • Low intake of other essential elements and microelements. • Loss of calcium, magnesium and other essential elements in prepared food. • Possible increased dietary intake of toxic metals.

willis936 5y ago
Is this paper a joke? The adverse health effects they list are under the noise floor and there is no mention of the alternative being risking exposure to heavy metals with health risks far above the noise floor. Additionally, the recommendations entirely ignore the idea of remineralization. I have to wonder why they would publish such an incomplete study and conclude it with dangerous guidance.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  Because remineralization doesn't actually work? Makes perfect sense to remove the minerals just to add them back. Many water treatment companies suggest that because reverse osmosis systems remove the minerals from water that you should add a remineralizing filter afterwards for the purpose of restoring minerals to your water. I’ve tested these filters and while the pH rose dramatically due to carbonates in the filter there were no minerals added. A number of companies use coral calcium as the remineralizing filter and it is true that coral calcium contains some 70 trace minerals. The problem is that the water passing through a filter system is not in contact with the coral calcium long enough to dissolve it. The water picks up carbonate and as a result the pH increases but essentially no minerals are added. You might see trace amounts of calcium and magnesium.
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

As a european I find this seriously disturbing. We've had water supply for hundreds of years, even in Russia it is generally decent, there is no excuse for a first world country. Bottling industry is harmfull, wastefull and inefficient.

errcorrectcode 5y ago
My friend, the US isn't a first-world country. Just look at how many homeless and struggling poor people there are compared to the billionaires and the rest of the uber rich in their gated communities. And the number of shootings, mass shootings, incarceration rate per capita (highest in the world), and who is in prisons (elderly minorities serving mandatory sentences for petty crimes). In Austin TX, nonviolent crimes are no longer investigated or prosecuted for the most part. I would sooner compare the US to Brazil, complete with smash-and-grab gang robberies. It won't be long before gangs mass rob the public in decaying cities like Austin, Chicago, and Detroit. Just like Brazil or Mexico: lawless, corrupt, failed states. Filter your own water at home if you can because the tap water in the US isn't trustworthy (chloramines at a minimum). I take my 5 and 7 gallon containers to the water store for filling. It's very efficient. I don't know why you're comparing RO to bottled water. PS: It's spelled "harmful" and "wasteful".
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > the US isn't a first-world country. If you are going to use the outdated, broken, and useless-for-the-current-context first/second/third-world model at all you should realize that the US is the country with whom relations define whether a country is first-world; it is one for two fixed poles of the model. If you want to say “the US is a capitalist country with intense concentration of wealth and too many people in poverty given the aggregate level of prosperity”, that's valid but even when the first-, etc., world model was current and relevant, that description was most typical of the first-world (including the US of the time). The second- and third-world had their own, different, typical problems.
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago