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This does not jibe with my experiences or anybody I know's experiences, I think it needs more development. I've had friends who used vegetable oils then they dr

This does not jibe with my experiences or anybody I know's experiences, I think it needs more development. I've had friends who used vegetable oils then they dried out or worse turned rancid and gummed stuff up. Especially bad if a tool is left for a while, or in a hot place, though I guess this is not so much a problem in Europe. This doesn't seem like a significant enough problem to justify that anyway, "thousands of gallons" across a continent is not actually that much.

worik 5y ago
If you use your chainsaw every day then vegetable oils are fine. The arborist I use uses vegetable oil and that was his comment to me. I use mineral oil in mine as I use it ~twice a year
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
If you read the article it isn't just the thousands of gallons, it is also breathing petroleum aerosols, etc. These foresters seem to have good experiences with it- https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=90186.0 https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=90186.0
- dwighttk 5y ago
  Have any studies been done on breathing vegetable oil aerosols?
  - stopagephobia 5y ago
    We'll probably get some solid observational data, due to the rise of vaping, but that will take a few years.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      What about all of the fast food fry cooks?
userbinator 5y ago
If you look at history you'll find that animal and plant oils were used as lubricants for a long time, but were replaced by petroleum specifically because of those problems you noted.
analog31 5y ago
Indeed, gas engines probably drip or exhaust more oil. Certainly 2 stroke chainsaws. There's a rumor among cyclists that "3 in 1 oil" is bad for bikes because it contains vegetable oil that gums up. But cyclists will debate about oil for days.
- userbinator 5y ago
  That's a very strange rumor since 3in1 is petroleum-based.
  - analog31 5y ago
    Rumor dispelled. Thanks! https://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/miscellaneous/MISC_MSDS_3-in-1-Oil.pdf https://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/miscellaneous/MISC_MSD... The closest thing I could find to mentioning vegetable oil was this thread: https://umgf.com/three-in-one-oil-substitute-t37605.html https://umgf.com/three-in-one-oil-substitute-t37605.html But the claim is without a reference, and the MSDS certainly appears to be the latest word.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  Same with guitar players and fingerboard oils. Use mineral oil because it's food-safe and won't go rancid. Same reason I use it on my cutting board.
  - exDM69 5y ago
    Mineral oil is fine for a fingerboard, but there is a caveat. Being a non-drying oil, it won't dry and nothing will stick to it. So if you put mineral oil once, it is mineral oil forever. If you try to put linseed oil or tung oil on it later, it will not adhere. I use boiled linseed oil and beeswax on the fingerboards of guitars I've built. Linseed oil is a drying oil which will polymerize when it reacts with air instead of going rancid like food oils. Drying oils or mineral oil should both work for the job as long as you do not try to mix them.
  - sva_ 5y ago
    Wait a moment. Mineral oils are food-safe? Don't they accumulate in the body and act as endocrine disruptors?
sp332 5y ago
The article says it's not straight vegetable oil, but lubricants "based" on vegetable oil, specifically with additives to address oxidation (going rancid).
agumonkey 5y ago
Reminds me I used a drop on a ThinkPad x60 noisy CPU fan. It held long enough. Not that this anecdote means much.
nkurz 5y ago
When you say they used "vegetable oils", do you mean they used a vegetable oil bought from the grocery store, or that they used one of the blended biodegradable oils specifically made for chainsaws? I've used both the Stihl Bioplus (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/ https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels...) and Husqvarna XGuard (https://www.baileysonline.com/husqvarna-x-guard-bar-chain-oil-1-gallon-bottle-case-of-4-hva-593-15-28-02.html https://www.baileysonline.com/husqvarna-x-guard-bar-chain-oi...) for a couple years now, and have no complaints other than the price. I do occasionally switch to back to mineral oil when I run out, so perhaps this has helped me to avoid problems.
- int_19h 5y ago
  I'm not familiar with chainsaw oils specifically, but there's a similar trend in gun lubricants, where many (non-military) ones are vegetabe oil blends with additives that are supposed to prevent gumming etc; I suspect these are very similar, if not the same compounds. There is still an ongoing debate on whether these are good enough etc. On one hand, some people swear by them, and non-toxicity is especially nice when it's going to be heated rapidly right next to your face. On the other hand, there are certainly quite a few recorded cases of things gummied up when stored long term. It appears that the additives do help quite a bit, but it's still a failure mode to consider, unlike synthetic oils.
  - stopagephobia 5y ago
    Tbh I wouldn't worry much about toxicity compared to the shit in GSR. Anecdotally I've never tried it but some people have tried something vegetable and it went sticky anyway. Cleaning guns regularly is enough of a pain in the ass already without maybe having to before going out shooting. I'd also never use it in a CCW or something ready for home defense because of that risk.
    - int_19h 5y ago
      FireClean was notorious for trying to shut up a guy who disclosed that it's basically just canola oil with additives. But even so, there are many people who use it without it gumming up. When it happens, it's usually when you store a gun lubricated without using it for a long time.
galago 5y ago
Christmas tree farms. They plant tiny forests and cut down every tree, running saws for many hours. I grew up near Christmas tree farms in Western Oregon, and its an odd but significant agricultural activity in certain areas. Over multiple plantings the amount of oil sprayed around could cause issues. In the area where I lived some farms have converted to wineries, so that somewhat marginal land does get converted back to food production.
kymaz 5y ago
There are drying oils and non-drying oils. Drying oils are what you want to put on your cast iron pan to polymerize the oil into a coating. Tung oil would be a bad choice for chain lubricant because it will gum up, but castor oil should be more suitable for said chain.
- gorgoiler 5y ago
  I was once an adherent (no pun intended) of this method, but nowadays I saturate my pans with sunflower oil instead. After every use they get a soapy wipe out, rinse, then a one minute heat with a quarter inch of oil in the pan. The iron just soaks it right up so it’s all ready and greasy for the next fry. Painting the pans with flaxseed oil leaves an uneven spidery brown pattern. If food sticks to the pan you have to sacrifice some of the coating. It wasn’t a durable solution for me.
  - worik 5y ago
    A quarter inch? That seems a lot. Cast iron pans?
    - gorgoiler 5y ago
      Yup. Enough to flow over the base of the cast iron pan without any gaps. When you heat the pan you can see the water bubble out of the iron pores. I let it cool, wipe it out, and hang it up.
      - hedora 5y ago
        I just use a few drops of canola oil, wipe it down, then heat it up enough for any water to start evaporating. By the time it cools, it’s dry. Unless I’m missing something, this uses ~ 1000x less oil. It also avoids build up of oil. I’d expect your cast iron to become sticky / blistered over time, though I haven’t tried the oil you use.
        gorgoiler 5y ago

worik 5y ago

If you use your chainsaw every day then vegetable oils are fine. The arborist I use uses vegetable oil and that was his comment to me. I use mineral oil in mine as I use it ~twice a year

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago

If you read the article it isn't just the thousands of gallons, it is also breathing petroleum aerosols, etc. These foresters seem to have good experiences with it- https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=90186.0 https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=90186.0

dwighttk 5y ago
Have any studies been done on breathing vegetable oil aerosols?
- stopagephobia 5y ago
  We'll probably get some solid observational data, due to the rise of vaping, but that will take a few years.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    What about all of the fast food fry cooks?

userbinator 5y ago

If you look at history you'll find that animal and plant oils were used as lubricants for a long time, but were replaced by petroleum specifically because of those problems you noted.

analog31 5y ago

Indeed, gas engines probably drip or exhaust more oil. Certainly 2 stroke chainsaws. There's a rumor among cyclists that "3 in 1 oil" is bad for bikes because it contains vegetable oil that gums up. But cyclists will debate about oil for days.

userbinator 5y ago
That's a very strange rumor since 3in1 is petroleum-based.
- analog31 5y ago
  Rumor dispelled. Thanks! https://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/miscellaneous/MISC_MSDS_3-in-1-Oil.pdf https://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/miscellaneous/MISC_MSD... The closest thing I could find to mentioning vegetable oil was this thread: https://umgf.com/three-in-one-oil-substitute-t37605.html https://umgf.com/three-in-one-oil-substitute-t37605.html But the claim is without a reference, and the MSDS certainly appears to be the latest word.
dehrmann 5y ago
Same with guitar players and fingerboard oils. Use mineral oil because it's food-safe and won't go rancid. Same reason I use it on my cutting board.
- exDM69 5y ago
  Mineral oil is fine for a fingerboard, but there is a caveat. Being a non-drying oil, it won't dry and nothing will stick to it. So if you put mineral oil once, it is mineral oil forever. If you try to put linseed oil or tung oil on it later, it will not adhere. I use boiled linseed oil and beeswax on the fingerboards of guitars I've built. Linseed oil is a drying oil which will polymerize when it reacts with air instead of going rancid like food oils. Drying oils or mineral oil should both work for the job as long as you do not try to mix them.
- sva_ 5y ago
  Wait a moment. Mineral oils are food-safe? Don't they accumulate in the body and act as endocrine disruptors?

sp332 5y ago

The article says it's not straight vegetable oil, but lubricants "based" on vegetable oil, specifically with additives to address oxidation (going rancid).

agumonkey 5y ago

Reminds me I used a drop on a ThinkPad x60 noisy CPU fan. It held long enough. Not that this anecdote means much.

nkurz 5y ago

When you say they used "vegetable oils", do you mean they used a vegetable oil bought from the grocery store, or that they used one of the blended biodegradable oils specifically made for chainsaws? I've used both the Stihl Bioplus (https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/biooil/ https://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels...) and Husqvarna XGuard (https://www.baileysonline.com/husqvarna-x-guard-bar-chain-oil-1-gallon-bottle-case-of-4-hva-593-15-28-02.html https://www.baileysonline.com/husqvarna-x-guard-bar-chain-oi...) for a couple years now, and have no complaints other than the price. I do occasionally switch to back to mineral oil when I run out, so perhaps this has helped me to avoid problems.

int_19h 5y ago
I'm not familiar with chainsaw oils specifically, but there's a similar trend in gun lubricants, where many (non-military) ones are vegetabe oil blends with additives that are supposed to prevent gumming etc; I suspect these are very similar, if not the same compounds. There is still an ongoing debate on whether these are good enough etc. On one hand, some people swear by them, and non-toxicity is especially nice when it's going to be heated rapidly right next to your face. On the other hand, there are certainly quite a few recorded cases of things gummied up when stored long term. It appears that the additives do help quite a bit, but it's still a failure mode to consider, unlike synthetic oils.
- stopagephobia 5y ago
  Tbh I wouldn't worry much about toxicity compared to the shit in GSR. Anecdotally I've never tried it but some people have tried something vegetable and it went sticky anyway. Cleaning guns regularly is enough of a pain in the ass already without maybe having to before going out shooting. I'd also never use it in a CCW or something ready for home defense because of that risk.
  - int_19h 5y ago
    FireClean was notorious for trying to shut up a guy who disclosed that it's basically just canola oil with additives. But even so, there are many people who use it without it gumming up. When it happens, it's usually when you store a gun lubricated without using it for a long time.

galago 5y ago

Christmas tree farms. They plant tiny forests and cut down every tree, running saws for many hours. I grew up near Christmas tree farms in Western Oregon, and its an odd but significant agricultural activity in certain areas. Over multiple plantings the amount of oil sprayed around could cause issues. In the area where I lived some farms have converted to wineries, so that somewhat marginal land does get converted back to food production.

kymaz 5y ago

There are drying oils and non-drying oils. Drying oils are what you want to put on your cast iron pan to polymerize the oil into a coating. Tung oil would be a bad choice for chain lubricant because it will gum up, but castor oil should be more suitable for said chain.

gorgoiler 5y ago
I was once an adherent (no pun intended) of this method, but nowadays I saturate my pans with sunflower oil instead. After every use they get a soapy wipe out, rinse, then a one minute heat with a quarter inch of oil in the pan. The iron just soaks it right up so it’s all ready and greasy for the next fry. Painting the pans with flaxseed oil leaves an uneven spidery brown pattern. If food sticks to the pan you have to sacrifice some of the coating. It wasn’t a durable solution for me.
- worik 5y ago
  A quarter inch? That seems a lot. Cast iron pans?
  - gorgoiler 5y ago
    Yup. Enough to flow over the base of the cast iron pan without any gaps. When you heat the pan you can see the water bubble out of the iron pores. I let it cool, wipe it out, and hang it up.
    - hedora 5y ago
      I just use a few drops of canola oil, wipe it down, then heat it up enough for any water to start evaporating. By the time it cools, it’s dry. Unless I’m missing something, this uses ~ 1000x less oil. It also avoids build up of oil. I’d expect your cast iron to become sticky / blistered over time, though I haven’t tried the oil you use.
      - gorgoiler 5y ago