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That is correct. By default all messages sent over Telegram are stored permanently in their servers unencrypted.

by vadfa 5y ago

skrowl 5y ago
Source for Telegram storing the information unencrypted at rest?
- pgalvin 5y ago
  It is widely known and confirmed by Telegram themselves that your messages are encrypted at rest by keys they possess. This is a similar process to what Dropbox, iCloud, Google Drive, and Facebook Messenger do. Your files with cloud services aren’t stored unencrypted on a hard drive - they’re encrypted, with the keys kept somewhere else by the cloud provider. This way somebody can’t walk out with a rack and access user data.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    How do they provide near-instant full text search on server side if the chats are "encrypted at rest"?
    - marcan_42 5y ago
      Encrypted at rest means the data is encrypted as stored on disk, not that they do not have access to the keys. That would be end-to-end encryption. What Telegram claims to have done is set this up in a way that makes it very hard for a single party/state to get these keys. It's not possible to make this completely impossible (if you have a server processing user data, it will have the keys loaded at some point, and there is always some way to physically attack it), but it is possible to make it very hard (physical tamper detection on the servers, secure boot tied to machine identity credentials required to access key material, etc - it's hard, but not impossible, to make this too difficult for any nation state to bypass). We don't know how good their set-up is, but it's certainly possible to do a good job at doing what they claim to be doing.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
        It doesn't matter at all, if you consider the risks of FBI (or FSB) accessing your chat logs. Telegram can produce your unencrypted chats to them, wether they are encrypted at rest or not. I just don't see why they would make life harder for themselves developing stuff, given how often Durov lies. He claimed that all Telegram developers are outside of Russia, but then it turned out that they were working next floor from his old VK company office, right in Saint Petersburg.
Borgz 5y ago
Not exactly. Non-secret chats are stored encrypted on Telegram's servers, and separately from keys. The goal seems to be to require multiple jurisdictions to issue a court order before data can be decrypted. https://telegram.org/privacy#3-3-1-cloud-chats https://telegram.org/privacy#3-3-1-cloud-chats https://telegram.org/faq#q-do-you-process-data-requests https://telegram.org/faq#q-do-you-process-data-requests
- vadfa 5y ago
  If you really think that kind of shit will float...
- anon11302100 5y ago
  "Not exactly" means "completely incorrect" now? Telegram doesn't store your messages forever and they are encrypted and seizing the servers won't allow you to decrypt them unless you also seize the correct servers from another country
  - vadfa 5y ago
    Of course they store your messages forever... They've kept all of my messages for over 7 years now.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

That is correct. By default all messages sent over Telegram are stored permanently in their servers unencrypted.

by vadfa 5y ago

That is correct. By default all messages sent over Telegram are stored permanently in their servers unencrypted.

skrowl 5y ago

Source for Telegram storing the information unencrypted at rest?

pgalvin 5y ago
It is widely known and confirmed by Telegram themselves that your messages are encrypted at rest by keys they possess. This is a similar process to what Dropbox, iCloud, Google Drive, and Facebook Messenger do. Your files with cloud services aren’t stored unencrypted on a hard drive - they’re encrypted, with the keys kept somewhere else by the cloud provider. This way somebody can’t walk out with a rack and access user data.
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  How do they provide near-instant full text search on server side if the chats are "encrypted at rest"?
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    Encrypted at rest means the data is encrypted as stored on disk, not that they do not have access to the keys. That would be end-to-end encryption. What Telegram claims to have done is set this up in a way that makes it very hard for a single party/state to get these keys. It's not possible to make this completely impossible (if you have a server processing user data, it will have the keys loaded at some point, and there is always some way to physically attack it), but it is possible to make it very hard (physical tamper detection on the servers, secure boot tied to machine identity credentials required to access key material, etc - it's hard, but not impossible, to make this too difficult for any nation state to bypass). We don't know how good their set-up is, but it's certainly possible to do a good job at doing what they claim to be doing.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      It doesn't matter at all, if you consider the risks of FBI (or FSB) accessing your chat logs. Telegram can produce your unencrypted chats to them, wether they are encrypted at rest or not. I just don't see why they would make life harder for themselves developing stuff, given how often Durov lies. He claimed that all Telegram developers are outside of Russia, but then it turned out that they were working next floor from his old VK company office, right in Saint Petersburg.

Borgz 5y ago

Not exactly. Non-secret chats are stored encrypted on Telegram's servers, and separately from keys. The goal seems to be to require multiple jurisdictions to issue a court order before data can be decrypted. https://telegram.org/privacy#3-3-1-cloud-chats https://telegram.org/privacy#3-3-1-cloud-chats https://telegram.org/faq#q-do-you-process-data-requests https://telegram.org/faq#q-do-you-process-data-requests

vadfa 5y ago
If you really think that kind of shit will float...
anon11302100 5y ago
"Not exactly" means "completely incorrect" now? Telegram doesn't store your messages forever and they are encrypted and seizing the servers won't allow you to decrypt them unless you also seize the correct servers from another country
- vadfa 5y ago
  Of course they store your messages forever... They've kept all of my messages for over 7 years now.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]