6 ms·

Yup, even 2x2 systems of equations. This stuff isn't hard, I don't get what the folks in the US are thinking.

TimTheTinker 5y ago
They're thinking that teaching people stuff is promoting a diversity of outcomes, which is anathema at the moment. Diversity is supposed to only extend as far as categories one mustn't use to discriminate (age, race, sex, religion, etc.). If it occurs in other areas (achievement level, ability in particular subjects) ... oooh that's bad. Must make it stop.
- holonomically 5y ago
  I don't understand what this means. Where I went to school there were no gifted programs but we all were doing algebra and word problems much earlier than in the US. If people want consistent outcomes then teach everyone the same thing and hold everyone up to the same standards by investing more resources in students that are underachieving. That to me seems like a much better way of equalizing outcomes.
  - TimTheTinker 5y ago
    If you teach "hard" things to average US public school students, a minority of them will excel as a result. The rest will nod off, get bored, not pay attention, and not benefit. So it benefits a minority (those who care) and differentiates them from the rest -- that's what they don't like. Because those who care come from "privileged" backgrounds more often than not, thus perpetuating the gap between privileged and non-privileged.
    - holonomically 5y ago
      I still don't follow. What exactly in what I suggested is the problem with equalizing outcomes? If everyone is learning the same things then what exactly is the problem? There is no discrimination involved.
      - TimTheTinker 5y ago
        "Equalizing outcomes" is exactly what they want to do. They seek to accomplish this by pulling down those who would otherwise excel, not by solving the real problems that are preventing people from excelling in the first place. Part of the problem is that outcomes can never be equalized. It's a fallacy to try to force everyone into the same educational mold. A statistical normal distribution will always occur. Better to remove impediments that are keeping people from excelling -- things like poverty, crime, etc. would be a great place to start.
        holonomically 5y ago
        What's the fallacy in teaching everyone the same things? That seems like a good way to equalize life outcomes and give everyone the required skills for succeeding in contemporary society.
        thereisnospork 5y ago
        In order to teach everyone the same thing you can only teach as much as the stupidest and least motivated person can grasp.
        holonomically 5y ago
        I don't see how that follows.
        thereisnospork 5y ago
        everyone is a set which includes anyone. If all (e.g.) 7th graders must have the same knowledge of math, that knowledge of math cannot exceed the knowledge attainable by the dumbest (read: any) 7th grader. This is tautologically true.
        holonomically 5y ago
        Yes, thanks. That clears it up. You're right. We must teach no one anything otherwise there would be some people that wouldn't be able to understand. That was exactly what I was thinking and your example helped me understand. What you were saying was clearly tautological and I just didn't have the logical training to understand it.
  - tppiotrowski 5y ago
    My interpretation: When most kids can’t do algebra, the teacher invests most of their time into helping those students catch up. Because most of the teachers time is now going to students who don’t understand algebra, algebra gets dropped all together. Minority high achievers who were capable of understanding algebra now feel that they are held back by low achievers. High achievers should probably check out Khan Academy or similar…
    - holonomically 5y ago
      Yes, this is probably what is happening. Schools are understaffed and underfunded so programs keep getting cut. At this point it really just might be better to let kids learn from Khan Academy since the adults clearly have no idea what they're doing.
      - kyboren 5y ago
        > Schools are understaffed and underfunded Please stop parroting this talking point. It's just not true. California schools are funded at record levels--$18k p.a. per pupil[0]. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27563357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27563357
        holonomically 5y ago
        Then maybe it should be $36k.
rootusrootus 5y ago
> I don't get what the folks in the US are thinking. My third grader does these (in an Oregon public school), so I think you've read too much into one article and a lot of uninformed commenters.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

They're thinking that teaching people stuff is promoting a diversity of outcomes, which is anathema at the moment. Diversity is supposed to only extend as far as categories one mustn't use to discriminate (age, race, sex, religion, etc.). If it occurs in other areas (achievement level, ability in particular subjects) ... oooh that's bad. Must make it stop.

holonomically 5y ago
I don't understand what this means. Where I went to school there were no gifted programs but we all were doing algebra and word problems much earlier than in the US. If people want consistent outcomes then teach everyone the same thing and hold everyone up to the same standards by investing more resources in students that are underachieving. That to me seems like a much better way of equalizing outcomes.
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  If you teach "hard" things to average US public school students, a minority of them will excel as a result. The rest will nod off, get bored, not pay attention, and not benefit. So it benefits a minority (those who care) and differentiates them from the rest -- that's what they don't like. Because those who care come from "privileged" backgrounds more often than not, thus perpetuating the gap between privileged and non-privileged.
  - holonomically 5y ago
    I still don't follow. What exactly in what I suggested is the problem with equalizing outcomes? If everyone is learning the same things then what exactly is the problem? There is no discrimination involved.
    - TimTheTinker 5y ago
      "Equalizing outcomes" is exactly what they want to do. They seek to accomplish this by pulling down those who would otherwise excel, not by solving the real problems that are preventing people from excelling in the first place. Part of the problem is that outcomes can never be equalized. It's a fallacy to try to force everyone into the same educational mold. A statistical normal distribution will always occur. Better to remove impediments that are keeping people from excelling -- things like poverty, crime, etc. would be a great place to start.
      - holonomically 5y ago
        What's the fallacy in teaching everyone the same things? That seems like a good way to equalize life outcomes and give everyone the required skills for succeeding in contemporary society.
        thereisnospork 5y ago
        In order to teach everyone the same thing you can only teach as much as the stupidest and least motivated person can grasp.
        holonomically 5y ago
        I don't see how that follows.
        thereisnospork 5y ago
        everyone is a set which includes anyone. If all (e.g.) 7th graders must have the same knowledge of math, that knowledge of math cannot exceed the knowledge attainable by the dumbest (read: any) 7th grader. This is tautologically true.
        holonomically 5y ago
        Yes, thanks. That clears it up. You're right. We must teach no one anything otherwise there would be some people that wouldn't be able to understand. That was exactly what I was thinking and your example helped me understand. What you were saying was clearly tautological and I just didn't have the logical training to understand it.
- tppiotrowski 5y ago
  My interpretation: When most kids can’t do algebra, the teacher invests most of their time into helping those students catch up. Because most of the teachers time is now going to students who don’t understand algebra, algebra gets dropped all together. Minority high achievers who were capable of understanding algebra now feel that they are held back by low achievers. High achievers should probably check out Khan Academy or similar…
  - holonomically 5y ago
    Yes, this is probably what is happening. Schools are understaffed and underfunded so programs keep getting cut. At this point it really just might be better to let kids learn from Khan Academy since the adults clearly have no idea what they're doing.
    - kyboren 5y ago
      > Schools are understaffed and underfunded Please stop parroting this talking point. It's just not true. California schools are funded at record levels--$18k p.a. per pupil[0]. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27563357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27563357
      - holonomically 5y ago
        Then maybe it should be $36k.

rootusrootus 5y ago

> I don't get what the folks in the US are thinking. My third grader does these (in an Oregon public school), so I think you've read too much into one article and a lot of uninformed commenters.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]