5 ms·

Nurses have to wear burdensome levels of PPE, and are forced to get vaccinated (despite many of them already getting COVID during the initial outbreak, and thei

Nurses have to wear burdensome levels of PPE, and are forced to get vaccinated (despite many of them already getting COVID during the initial outbreak, and their natural immunity providing broader and longer-lasting protection than vaccines). Go back to complete normal and this shortage will resolve.

everybodyknows 5y ago
>natural immunity providing broader and longer-lasting protection than vaccines Supporting evidence, please?
- post_from_work 5y ago
  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/vim.2021.0054 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/vim.2021.0054
  - Arnt 5y ago
    Those don't support that conclusion. Rather, they support the conclusion that natural immunity providing broader and longer-lasting protection for survivors than vaccines do for everyone.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
detaro 5y ago
Except countries that don't require vaccinations for healthcare workers have exactly the same burnout issues. And the problems also affect workers that are vaccinated. Having to do the job right now is quite enough apparently.
liveoneggs 5y ago
my sister (a nurse) got covid, was fine, got it again, got sick, and now got vaccinated
- coolso 5y ago
  My friend’s entire family got fully vaccinated, and all got as sick with COVID as my ex who was not vaccinated.
  - Arnt 5y ago
    I'm glad that you didn't get as sick as my cousin. I know you didn't, because you're typing and she's dead. Or if you don't like anecdata: In the country where I live, more people die per hour of covid than the total number who've died from a vaccine. Considering that, what the point of even trying any further comparative analysis?
    - coolso 5y ago
      I’m pro-vax and vaccinated. We are discussing natural immunity vs. vaccine immunity here - not vaccine immunity vs. immunity of those who never got sick from it at all. I’m sorry about your cousin.
      - Arnt 5y ago
        Yes, well, the words cousin and corona together rile me, and particularly... anyway, sorry.
somewhereoutth 5y ago
My understanding is that disease induced immunity is a bit more unreliable compared to vaccine induced immunity - perhaps antibodies may be generated that target a part of the virus that is not highly conserved or important for infection, so leaving the individual vulnerable to slight variations, whereas vaccines produce highly targeted antibodies. Also, the virus contains components that interfere with the immune response, perhaps degrading the immune memory? Vaccination after infection does appear to provide excellent protection though. We are still doing the science on all this of course.
- esyir 5y ago
  I'd expect the opposite, and from what I understand, this is particularly so for delta. Consistency is an issue though, as natural immunity is more variable in it's response. > https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... This report on an Israeli study seems to imply that natural immunity was superior to the vaccine for protection against delta, though a combination of vaccination and infection provided the best response. This, to me is intuitive. Note: 1, educated conjecture ahead It seems intuitive to me that the natural immune response would provide greater protection against variants like delta, stemming from the nature of their targets. The vaccine is highly tuned for a specific target: the spike protein. Conversely, natural immunity performs multiple "training" runs in parallel, targeting a wider variety of antigens. If you'd take a ML perspective, this is somewhat analogous to an overfit model vs a more generalized model. Note 2: Alas, you still have to get Covid to begin with to get natural immunity, so you probably don't want to go out of your way to get it if you haven't already.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    CDC currently says otherwise. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr... > In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.

everybodyknows 5y ago

>natural immunity providing broader and longer-lasting protection than vaccines Supporting evidence, please?

post_from_work 5y ago
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v... https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/vim.2021.0054 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/vim.2021.0054
- Arnt 5y ago
  Those don't support that conclusion. Rather, they support the conclusion that natural immunity providing broader and longer-lasting protection for survivors than vaccines do for everyone.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

detaro 5y ago

Except countries that don't require vaccinations for healthcare workers have exactly the same burnout issues. And the problems also affect workers that are vaccinated. Having to do the job right now is quite enough apparently.

liveoneggs 5y ago

my sister (a nurse) got covid, was fine, got it again, got sick, and now got vaccinated

coolso 5y ago
My friend’s entire family got fully vaccinated, and all got as sick with COVID as my ex who was not vaccinated.
- Arnt 5y ago
  I'm glad that you didn't get as sick as my cousin. I know you didn't, because you're typing and she's dead. Or if you don't like anecdata: In the country where I live, more people die per hour of covid than the total number who've died from a vaccine. Considering that, what the point of even trying any further comparative analysis?
  - coolso 5y ago
    I’m pro-vax and vaccinated. We are discussing natural immunity vs. vaccine immunity here - not vaccine immunity vs. immunity of those who never got sick from it at all. I’m sorry about your cousin.
    - Arnt 5y ago
      Yes, well, the words cousin and corona together rile me, and particularly... anyway, sorry.

somewhereoutth 5y ago

My understanding is that disease induced immunity is a bit more unreliable compared to vaccine induced immunity - perhaps antibodies may be generated that target a part of the virus that is not highly conserved or important for infection, so leaving the individual vulnerable to slight variations, whereas vaccines produce highly targeted antibodies. Also, the virus contains components that interfere with the immune response, perhaps degrading the immune memory? Vaccination after infection does appear to provide excellent protection though. We are still doing the science on all this of course.

esyir 5y ago
I'd expect the opposite, and from what I understand, this is particularly so for delta. Consistency is an issue though, as natural immunity is more variable in it's response. > https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-on... This report on an Israeli study seems to imply that natural immunity was superior to the vaccine for protection against delta, though a combination of vaccination and infection provided the best response. This, to me is intuitive. Note: 1, educated conjecture ahead It seems intuitive to me that the natural immune response would provide greater protection against variants like delta, stemming from the nature of their targets. The vaccine is highly tuned for a specific target: the spike protein. Conversely, natural immunity performs multiple "training" runs in parallel, targeting a wider variety of antigens. If you'd take a ML perspective, this is somewhat analogous to an overfit model vs a more generalized model. Note 2: Alas, you still have to get Covid to begin with to get natural immunity, so you probably don't want to go out of your way to get it if you haven't already.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  CDC currently says otherwise. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr... > In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. These data further indicate that COVID-19 vaccines offer better protection than natural immunity alone and that vaccines, even after prior infection, help prevent reinfections.