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That's quite a leap from "scan SSID" to knowing "all about your home network" and sounds like hyperbole. What can I gather from just passively scanning SSID and

That's quite a leap from "scan SSID" to knowing "all about your home network" and sounds like hyperbole. What can I gather from just passively scanning SSID and possibly putting out some probes on a properly configured WiFi network? I imagine some things like number of hosts, MAC addresses, traffic stats - which is not ideal, but hardly what I would call knowing "all about it". I'm quite the privacy nut, but I always think its ridiculous that people cry foul about what people do with data that is being broadcast over the airwaves. If you really care about privacy and don't trust WPA2 then don't fucking use WiFi!

nitrogen 5y ago
broadcast over the airwaves Intent matters a great deal. Very few people intend for their wifi to reach their neighbors or the street. There is already an expectation of privacy for visible and IR wavelengths of the EM spectrum.
- emptycan 5y ago
  I don't agree intent has any relevance here vs the other issues at hand, and it is news to me that there is some actual distinct expectation of privacy with regards to wavelength as you state. Visible and IR wavelengths don't reach outside through non-windows, because of physics - but I don't think there is any inherent expectation of privacy - quite the opposite. If you leave your front bay window open and people outside can see in, and you call the police for privacy invasion they will laugh in your face in most places - in fact if you are doing something deemed obscene or distasteful you may be the one arrested - and for good reason. They'll tell you to get something to block the light like a curtain. Whether or not people intend it - wifi signals easily will make it to the street - and they're on shared spectrum. Especially if you're going to pollute the public ISM band - it's sort of on you to take whatever precautions you need to stay safe whether that is better encryption, a faraday cage or just abstaining and finding alternative means. If you start blasting loud noises 24/7 constantly in your neighborhood and someone complains, is your response going to be well, "I don't intend for this garbage to reach my neighbors"?
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    distinct expectation of privacy with regards to wavelength AIUI police aren't permitted to use anything that lets them see through walls without a warrant, and the same should apply to corporations and individuals. it's sort of on you to take whatever precautions you need to stay safe In other words, "I'm going to take what I can because you didn't know you didn't lock your door," is that it? No reasonable non-tech person would look at a wifi router in their closet and think, "I expect waves radiating from this device to pass through the walls of my house and be used by large corporations for tracking purposes." They think, "I plug this in and I can use the Internet on my phone inside my house."

nitrogen 5y ago

broadcast over the airwaves Intent matters a great deal. Very few people intend for their wifi to reach their neighbors or the street. There is already an expectation of privacy for visible and IR wavelengths of the EM spectrum.

emptycan 5y ago
I don't agree intent has any relevance here vs the other issues at hand, and it is news to me that there is some actual distinct expectation of privacy with regards to wavelength as you state. Visible and IR wavelengths don't reach outside through non-windows, because of physics - but I don't think there is any inherent expectation of privacy - quite the opposite. If you leave your front bay window open and people outside can see in, and you call the police for privacy invasion they will laugh in your face in most places - in fact if you are doing something deemed obscene or distasteful you may be the one arrested - and for good reason. They'll tell you to get something to block the light like a curtain. Whether or not people intend it - wifi signals easily will make it to the street - and they're on shared spectrum. Especially if you're going to pollute the public ISM band - it's sort of on you to take whatever precautions you need to stay safe whether that is better encryption, a faraday cage or just abstaining and finding alternative means. If you start blasting loud noises 24/7 constantly in your neighborhood and someone complains, is your response going to be well, "I don't intend for this garbage to reach my neighbors"?
- nitrogen 5y ago
  distinct expectation of privacy with regards to wavelength AIUI police aren't permitted to use anything that lets them see through walls without a warrant, and the same should apply to corporations and individuals. it's sort of on you to take whatever precautions you need to stay safe In other words, "I'm going to take what I can because you didn't know you didn't lock your door," is that it? No reasonable non-tech person would look at a wifi router in their closet and think, "I expect waves radiating from this device to pass through the walls of my house and be used by large corporations for tracking purposes." They think, "I plug this in and I can use the Internet on my phone inside my house."