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Real numbers are lacking in this article. It’s way more interesting to talk about real dollar numbers. We are looking at $100/kWh. While most projections by NRE

Real numbers are lacking in this article. It’s way more interesting to talk about real dollar numbers. We are looking at $100/kWh. While most projections by NREL said it would be bottoming out around 200 in 2021. Having a 50% drop compared to projects is insane. At $100/kWh battery connected solar panel power plants become very lucrative.

cwkoss 5y ago
Are lithium batteries becoming cheaper than lead batteries? I was under the impression that lead was the leader for fixed installations (like solar) because weight isn't much of an issue if it doesn't have to move. Is there a different reason why lithium is preferable to lead for these sorts of applications?
- magicalhippo 5y ago
  > Is there a different reason why lithium is preferable to lead for these sorts of applications? AFAIK lead-acid batteries have a number of downsides compared to LiFePO4. They're heavy, they require a ventilated area due to hydrogen gas production, they don't last nearly as long (fewer charge/discharge cycles) and they have significantly lower effective capacity at higher discharge rates. At this point the main benefit seems to be upfront cost. https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2015/03/30/batteries-lithium-ion-vs-agm/ https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2015/03/30/batteries-lith... https://relionbattery.com/blog/agm-vs-lithium-batteries-which-are-better-for-solar-rv-and-camper-van-battery-banks https://relionbattery.com/blog/agm-vs-lithium-batteries-whic...
- belval 5y ago
  Lead for fixed installation was a general rule a few years back but it's not really advantageous anymore. There were several concerns with lithium (especially price, availability and safety) that are now addressed making it much more interesting. For example a powerwall built with LiFePO4 cells will be good for at least 10000 cycles (+15 years) and afterwards the degradation curve is much nicer than lead-acid so you can easily get 25 years if you can cope with some reduction in capacity. It also has no risk of thermal runoff (so it won't start a fire is a cell has a catastrophic failure) which is much better than traditional cobalt or manganese batteries. You can get grade A cells for about ~400$/kWh today when buying only one and obviously bulk discounts are widely available if you are getting something bigger. It still burns if your house catches fire though so that's still a concern.

cwkoss 5y ago

Are lithium batteries becoming cheaper than lead batteries? I was under the impression that lead was the leader for fixed installations (like solar) because weight isn't much of an issue if it doesn't have to move. Is there a different reason why lithium is preferable to lead for these sorts of applications?

magicalhippo 5y ago
> Is there a different reason why lithium is preferable to lead for these sorts of applications? AFAIK lead-acid batteries have a number of downsides compared to LiFePO4. They're heavy, they require a ventilated area due to hydrogen gas production, they don't last nearly as long (fewer charge/discharge cycles) and they have significantly lower effective capacity at higher discharge rates. At this point the main benefit seems to be upfront cost. https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2015/03/30/batteries-lithium-ion-vs-agm/ https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2015/03/30/batteries-lith... https://relionbattery.com/blog/agm-vs-lithium-batteries-which-are-better-for-solar-rv-and-camper-van-battery-banks https://relionbattery.com/blog/agm-vs-lithium-batteries-whic...
belval 5y ago
Lead for fixed installation was a general rule a few years back but it's not really advantageous anymore. There were several concerns with lithium (especially price, availability and safety) that are now addressed making it much more interesting. For example a powerwall built with LiFePO4 cells will be good for at least 10000 cycles (+15 years) and afterwards the degradation curve is much nicer than lead-acid so you can easily get 25 years if you can cope with some reduction in capacity. It also has no risk of thermal runoff (so it won't start a fire is a cell has a catastrophic failure) which is much better than traditional cobalt or manganese batteries. You can get grade A cells for about ~400$/kWh today when buying only one and obviously bulk discounts are widely available if you are getting something bigger. It still burns if your house catches fire though so that's still a concern.