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The article highlights some great points about why Tokyo is so livable, but having been in the market for a home here last year, I also think the depreciation o

The article highlights some great points about why Tokyo is so livable, but having been in the market for a home here last year, I also think the depreciation of Japanese real estate (at least the physical structures) is a big factor. New houses and apartments depreciate significantly once bought, and old homes can even trend into negative territory. Land that someone has cleared for you can be more expensive than the same land with an old home on it that they presume you will later pay to demolish. The land itself in Tokyo can appreciate, but not enough to offset the rapid depreciation of the structure. A lot of the avoidance around old homes is cultural (maybe because of frequent natural disasters), and it’s started a self-fulfilling prophecy where old homes can actually not be livable. People build homes with the depreciation in mind and don’t generally use long—lasting materials, leading to homes that aren’t actually livable a few decades later when they might be sold. On the bright side, this leads to a lot of opportunities for architects to build new homes, so it’s also part of the reason why you see so many uniquely designed homes out of Japan.

AlanSE 5y ago
I've also heard about how homes in Japan are (comparatively to the US) poorly insulated. So that tracks.
- ramchip 5y ago
  It depends where in Japan. Homes in Tokyo are poorly insulated. Homes in Hokkaido are usually pretty decent.
  - presentation 5y ago
    Yep, it doesn’t get that cold in Tokyo so there’s less incentive.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Since Japan import all fuels, insulating must be higher priority but still isn't.
hsn915 5y ago
I assume by 'depreciation' you mean prices fall down or don't go up? Yea, why is that a bad thing? If house prices keep going up it just makes it impossible for young people to start families. Why would anyone want that? Treating homes as investment kills the social fabric. That said, houses in Tokyo are quite expensive. Try looking online (like on suumo or sumaiti or lifull homes websites) and you will see that a house for a family with 2 kids costs upwards of half a million dollars. Which I think is insane. Houses on the country side are much cheaper (half that price or less).
- bart_spoon 5y ago
  > That said, houses in Tokyo are quite expensive. Try looking online (like on suumo or sumaiti or lifull homes websites) and you will see that a house for a family with 2 kids costs upwards of half a million dollars. Which I think is insane. This is absurdly cheap compared to cities around the world, including in the US.
- golemiprague 5y ago
  Try finding a house for half a million dollar in any major city around the world, good luck. Tokyo is actually very cheap because you can go to a cheap neighbourhood and still will have all amenities, safety and most important quick and easy transportation to all the interesting places. Many families live in apartment buildings which are cheaper, if it is slightly old it is even more cheap. It is also nice because the city got little parks and playgrounds dotted all over the place so kids just go there to play with other kids, you don't need the American suburban back yard. Once they are 6 they start to travel by train and bike to school so you don't really need a car to get them everywhere. Daycare are also very cheap, especially the public one but even privates that work during all working hours are relatively cheap and they give excellent care.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  > a house for a family with 2 kids costs upwards of half a million dollars. Which I think is insane. That's a steal, globally seen. I live in a mid-size city in Germany (500k people) and for a house at the city border you can easily calculate a million euros. And that's for the small ones that need restoration from the ground up. Let's not even get started on larger cities like Munich or Frankfurt. EDIT: Why the downvotes? While these houses might be expensive in absolute terms, they are pretty cheap for such a large Metropole.
flakiness 5y ago
So true, and that idea is so prevalent to people living there. This mentally prevents me, who moved from Japan to US, from buying a home. I still cannot convince myself a home can be a investment (or at least meaningful asset.) To Me it feels like buying a exceptionally expensive laptop. That's probably not true here, but I cannot turn my head around.
quantisan 5y ago
Freakonomics podcast discussed this vicious cycle about disposable Japanese homes https://freakonomics.com/2014/02/26/why-are-japanese-homes-disposable-full-transcript/ https://freakonomics.com/2014/02/26/why-are-japanese-homes-d...

AlanSE 5y ago

I've also heard about how homes in Japan are (comparatively to the US) poorly insulated. So that tracks.

ramchip 5y ago
It depends where in Japan. Homes in Tokyo are poorly insulated. Homes in Hokkaido are usually pretty decent.
- presentation 5y ago
  Yep, it doesn’t get that cold in Tokyo so there’s less incentive.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Since Japan import all fuels, insulating must be higher priority but still isn't.

hsn915 5y ago

I assume by 'depreciation' you mean prices fall down or don't go up? Yea, why is that a bad thing? If house prices keep going up it just makes it impossible for young people to start families. Why would anyone want that? Treating homes as investment kills the social fabric. That said, houses in Tokyo are quite expensive. Try looking online (like on suumo or sumaiti or lifull homes websites) and you will see that a house for a family with 2 kids costs upwards of half a million dollars. Which I think is insane. Houses on the country side are much cheaper (half that price or less).

bart_spoon 5y ago
> That said, houses in Tokyo are quite expensive. Try looking online (like on suumo or sumaiti or lifull homes websites) and you will see that a house for a family with 2 kids costs upwards of half a million dollars. Which I think is insane. This is absurdly cheap compared to cities around the world, including in the US.
golemiprague 5y ago
Try finding a house for half a million dollar in any major city around the world, good luck. Tokyo is actually very cheap because you can go to a cheap neighbourhood and still will have all amenities, safety and most important quick and easy transportation to all the interesting places. Many families live in apartment buildings which are cheaper, if it is slightly old it is even more cheap. It is also nice because the city got little parks and playgrounds dotted all over the place so kids just go there to play with other kids, you don't need the American suburban back yard. Once they are 6 they start to travel by train and bike to school so you don't really need a car to get them everywhere. Daycare are also very cheap, especially the public one but even privates that work during all working hours are relatively cheap and they give excellent care.
Sebb767 5y ago
> a house for a family with 2 kids costs upwards of half a million dollars. Which I think is insane. That's a steal, globally seen. I live in a mid-size city in Germany (500k people) and for a house at the city border you can easily calculate a million euros. And that's for the small ones that need restoration from the ground up. Let's not even get started on larger cities like Munich or Frankfurt. EDIT: Why the downvotes? While these houses might be expensive in absolute terms, they are pretty cheap for such a large Metropole.

flakiness 5y ago

So true, and that idea is so prevalent to people living there. This mentally prevents me, who moved from Japan to US, from buying a home. I still cannot convince myself a home can be a investment (or at least meaningful asset.) To Me it feels like buying a exceptionally expensive laptop. That's probably not true here, but I cannot turn my head around.

quantisan 5y ago

Freakonomics podcast discussed this vicious cycle about disposable Japanese homes https://freakonomics.com/2014/02/26/why-are-japanese-homes-disposable-full-transcript/ https://freakonomics.com/2014/02/26/why-are-japanese-homes-d...