7 ms·

Israeli spyware company NSO Group placed on US blacklist

125 points by sequence7 5y ago

sofixa 5y ago
Serves them right. I wonder how Israel would react here, and how the US squares blacklisting the company, but saying nothing of the Israeli MoD that had to authorise every sale due to export restrictions. If the company sold to bad actors, surely the MoD is at least partly to blame for allowing it?
- dogma1138 5y ago
  I highly doubt that some of the more shady deals like selling to the KSA weren’t greenlit if not brokered by the US. About 10 years ago Israel sold Hermes drones to KSA through South Africa, that deal was pretty much openly brokered by the US because KSA wanted drones with attack capability and the US didn’t want to supply them with predator drones and the UK which is primary arms supplier to KSA didn’t had anything to export either. Israel or not if these companies posed any actual threat to US interests yet alone national security they wouldn’t exist either through political pressure or by much stronger actions than putting them on a sanctioned list. What will likely happen is that they’ll reform as other entities with sufficient separation from to avoid sanction or Israel would shift that capacity to some of the larger defense contractors like Elbit which the US will not sanction. As long as there is a market for these services and there is sufficient political will in the west and the US specifically to supply “allies” with controlled offensive cyber capability there will be countries like Israel that would fulfill this demand. The main challenge of establishing a company like NSO isn’t the human capital you can find people with the right skills pretty much anywhere it’s the connections and the government backing needed to make these deals.
- baybal2 5y ago
  Not the MoD, but the cabinet, and the previous PM specifically
bberenberg 5y ago
Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29095265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29095265
bink 5y ago
There are several US companies that provide the same service, though they ostensibly operate under guidelines set by the US government. As someone who was busted for hacking way back in the day, it perturbs me just a little bit that I could legally develop an exploit and sell it to someone who I know will use it for illegal activity (but activity that the US govt. might approve of, regardless of legality), but if I myself use this exploit I'll be facing serious jail time. Or if I sell it to someone who isn't on an unofficial "approved" list of users.
- suifbwish 5y ago
  If people who exploit this sort of thing for financial gain would spend a fraction of their problem solving on developing a constructive solution that solves a real world problem they would probably have more money
einpoklum 5y ago
Call me when the US federal government and its bombing and drone assassination program runners are placed on the blacklist.
- vernie 5y ago
  Nobody will call you.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- viro 5y ago
  For what exactly? Your issues with that program probably has more to do with Taliban war crimes. Don't forget it's a war crime to not wear a uniform during combat.
  - erdos4d 5y ago
    > Don't forget it's a war crime to not wear a uniform during combat lol those dudes are getting shot at with gunships and tanks and have AKs and old mines and stuff to fight back with. They should invest in uniforms to make it "fair"?
    - viro 5y ago
      It's not about making it fair. When soldiers dress as civilians in civilian areas during combat. It's nearly impossible to make sure a real civilian doesn't get harmed.
      - bestcoder69 5y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy48P-SBgUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy48P-SBgUU
      - dotancohen 5y ago
        Unfortunately the US is well-known for actually actively engaging civilians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0 Whether or not that is an isolated incident is irrelevant. The US has a reputation for shooting civilians. The US media doesn't help either, often portraying soldiers shooting civilians even in fiction.
sonjaqql 5y ago
See episodes 99 and 100 on the Darknet Diaries [1] for background on NSO and Pegasus. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/ https://darknetdiaries.com/
- jayrot 5y ago
  Great podcast.

125 points by sequence7 5y ago

Serves them right. I wonder how Israel would react here, and how the US squares blacklisting the company, but saying nothing of the Israeli MoD that had to authorise every sale due to export restrictions. If the company sold to bad actors, surely the MoD is at least partly to blame for allowing it?

dogma1138 5y ago
I highly doubt that some of the more shady deals like selling to the KSA weren’t greenlit if not brokered by the US. About 10 years ago Israel sold Hermes drones to KSA through South Africa, that deal was pretty much openly brokered by the US because KSA wanted drones with attack capability and the US didn’t want to supply them with predator drones and the UK which is primary arms supplier to KSA didn’t had anything to export either. Israel or not if these companies posed any actual threat to US interests yet alone national security they wouldn’t exist either through political pressure or by much stronger actions than putting them on a sanctioned list. What will likely happen is that they’ll reform as other entities with sufficient separation from to avoid sanction or Israel would shift that capacity to some of the larger defense contractors like Elbit which the US will not sanction. As long as there is a market for these services and there is sufficient political will in the west and the US specifically to supply “allies” with controlled offensive cyber capability there will be countries like Israel that would fulfill this demand. The main challenge of establishing a company like NSO isn’t the human capital you can find people with the right skills pretty much anywhere it’s the connections and the government backing needed to make these deals.
baybal2 5y ago
Not the MoD, but the cabinet, and the previous PM specifically

bberenberg 5y ago

Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29095265 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29095265

bink 5y ago

There are several US companies that provide the same service, though they ostensibly operate under guidelines set by the US government. As someone who was busted for hacking way back in the day, it perturbs me just a little bit that I could legally develop an exploit and sell it to someone who I know will use it for illegal activity (but activity that the US govt. might approve of, regardless of legality), but if I myself use this exploit I'll be facing serious jail time. Or if I sell it to someone who isn't on an unofficial "approved" list of users.

suifbwish 5y ago
If people who exploit this sort of thing for financial gain would spend a fraction of their problem solving on developing a constructive solution that solves a real world problem they would probably have more money

einpoklum 5y ago

Call me when the US federal government and its bombing and drone assassination program runners are placed on the blacklist.

vernie 5y ago
Nobody will call you.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
viro 5y ago
For what exactly? Your issues with that program probably has more to do with Taliban war crimes. Don't forget it's a war crime to not wear a uniform during combat.
- erdos4d 5y ago
  > Don't forget it's a war crime to not wear a uniform during combat lol those dudes are getting shot at with gunships and tanks and have AKs and old mines and stuff to fight back with. They should invest in uniforms to make it "fair"?
  - viro 5y ago
    It's not about making it fair. When soldiers dress as civilians in civilian areas during combat. It's nearly impossible to make sure a real civilian doesn't get harmed.
    - bestcoder69 5y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy48P-SBgUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy48P-SBgUU
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      Unfortunately the US is well-known for actually actively engaging civilians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0 Whether or not that is an isolated incident is irrelevant. The US has a reputation for shooting civilians. The US media doesn't help either, often portraying soldiers shooting civilians even in fiction.

sonjaqql 5y ago

See episodes 99 and 100 on the Darknet Diaries [1] for background on NSO and Pegasus. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/ https://darknetdiaries.com/

jayrot 5y ago
Great podcast.